Take these for waht they are worth. I'm not an x and o guru like some, I just call them like I see them.

O line play was pretty bad. Hartwig was getting absolutely blown up early in the game, but settled down a little. Piller had some big collapses too, both when CB was crushed in the backfield by Gary Walker and then by Robaire Smith. To his credit, he was running downfield ahead of CB on a long run, except that he forgot to block anybody. For Zach to say the OL is not the problem, he's in denial.

I know we all love him, but Steve needs to sit down or simply retire. If it wasn't 5-10 over their head, it was at the shinbone. Horrible throws to the receivers, can't hit a guy in stride, can't throw a timing route to save his life. I don't understand when he's hurting, and cannot practice, and cannot throw off his sore foot or leg .... why is he in the game? Why does Billy get the reps and the chemistry in practice all week and then sit on Sundays? Is a 70% McNair better than a 95% Volek?

Why a two yard pass on third and seven? Why a three yard screen on third and eleven? Why do you keep getting in third and eleven?

Why can't you run on the worst run defense in the league?

Our offense is just that ... offensive. Averaging less than 20 points per game now, since we did not score a touchdown yesterday (on offense).

Catch the ball Calico, catch the ball.

KVB is a beast. Pac is much improved. I love his "fear no man" on the field. Woolfolk still looks lost out there. Reynaldo Hill has all the makings of our next Dainon Sidney. Note to Hill - take your man inside so you can watch the QB as well as the receiver. If not, play the receivers hands.

The win might be a little costly. Many more teams at four wins than there are at three wins. Especially since we will not be drafting anyone in the third round.

"Why can't you run on the worst run defense in the league?"

"O line play was pretty bad. Hartwig was getting absolutely blown up early in the game, but settled down a little. Piller had some big collapses too, both when CB was crushed in the backfield by Gary Walker and then by Robaire Smith. To his credit, he was running downfield ahead of CB on a long run, except that he forgot to block anybody. For Zach to say the OL is not the problem, he's in denial."

there you go.

We played no better than our record shows. The word 'denial' keeps popping up in these posts. We SUCK and anyone who thinks differently is in 'denial' ! How did these guys win 4 games?
We need alot of work on both sides of the ball. Some vets will not be with us next year. Vets that we won't miss like we miss the ones that left last year.

I know we all love him, but Steve needs to sit down or simply retire. If it wasn't 5-10 over their head, it was at the shinbone. Horrible throws to the receivers, can't hit a guy in stride, can't throw a timing route to save his life. I don't understand when he's hurting, and cannot practice, and cannot throw off his sore foot or leg .... why is he in the game? Why does Billy get the reps and the chemistry in practice all week and then sit on Sundays? Is a 70% McNair better than a 95% Volek?
Volek has proven that he can't get the job done. At least Steve has winning experience. Not sure if Steve shouldn't reitre, maybe he should, but Volek sure as hell ain't the answer.

Why a two yard pass on third and seven? Why a three yard screen on third and eleven? Why do you keep getting in third and eleven?
We did the same things under Dinger over the course of the last couple of years. I remember talking about the same exact play calling last year. For what ever reason it seems like everytime we need 7 or 8 yards we run a 2 or 3 yard route and turn the ball over.

Why can't you run on the worst run defense in the league? Week Oline+ Mediocre RB+Absolutlely no passing game = No running game. All teams have to do is stop the run against us and they've got us beaten. We're one demesional.

Catch the ball Calico, catch the ball. Catch the ball.... Anyone! Please... Catch the damn ball!!! I can honestly say that we have the worst NFL recieving core that I've ever seen in my life. I've never seen a group of guys who are so scared of the ball like our guys. No leadership and no balls. And yes, there we some passes that didn't hit them directly in the chest but that's how it is. Sometimes you have to bend over or reach out to make a catch. Our recievers look like they've never played the game before.

I know everyone is probably as frustrated as I am, and I am one of those that tends to "react" in these types of situations rather than to "respond".

Like we have all said, we pretty much suck right now.

I'm still wondering about Billy. People say he is not the answer long term, but at this point in the season, with a not-so-healthy McNair, why is he not playing?

Sure, he's come in for a series or two, and he's looked for the most part "ill-prepared" most times this season. I would like to see him run the offense for a full game before we start the "trade Volek" discussion again.

I would like to see what is in our playbook after page two. By the way, Steve's play action fools nobody.

I would like to see what is in our playbook after page two. By the way, Steve's play action fools nobody.
I notice this as well. To watch this vs. a Manning play-action fake, it's night and day. I was hoping it looked more believable from the viewpoint of a defender.

Week Oline+ Mediocre RB+Absolutlely no passing game = No running game. All teams have to do is stop the run against us and they've got us beaten. We're one demesional.

two 1000 yard backs are mediocre?

I hate to say it man, but Chris Brown is a Mediocre to Average RB at best. Yeah, he may of had a 1,000 yard season last year, but that was in like the first 5 to 8 games. His style is very inconsistant and he's not a great reciever out the backfield. Look at last year. He would break big ones than get stuffed or gain 1 to 3 yards the next play. Also he couldn't gain short yardage when we needed it, if his life depended on it last year. He still hasn't improved on the later problem, but to be fair the OLine play has been putrid.

As for Henry, well he's a puzzling guy. He's looked fine as of late, but only in the passing aspect of his game. I'd like to see what he can do with a good OLine.

I hate to say it man, but Chris Brown is a Mediocre to Average RB at best. Yeah, he may of had a 1,000 yard season last year, but that was in like the first 5 to 8 games.
Funny statement - mediocre because the majority of his 1000 yards came in his first 5-8 games last year. He obviously has big play potential - he's lost a decent amount of scores/long runs this year due to penalties. The whole team has struggled this year Cb included but I think you would have a hard time getting anyone to go along with the "Mediocre" tag. RB is not a position that needs upgraded on this team.

Funny statement - mediocre because the majority of his 1000 yards came in his first 5-8 games last year. He obviously has big play potential - he's lost a decent amount of scores/long runs this year due to penalties. The whole team has struggled this year Cb included but I think you would have a hard time getting anyone to go along with the "Mediocre" tag. RB is not a position that needs upgraded on this team.

He hasn't done anything to suggest that he's any better than mediocre. Aside from breaking the occasional long run (which have been far and few between lately) he looks like an old Eddie getting a yard or two and sometimes less on most carries. I think that actually playing nearly a full season has taken a toll with him this year.

and now he's being compared to Eddie - that was bound to happen

Old Eddie.

He is not mediocre

i know which "eddie" you were refering to - it doesn't make it any more sensible though

Sure, he's come in for a series or two, and he's looked for the most part "ill-prepared" most times this season. I would like to see him run the offense for a full game before we start the "trade Volek" discussion again.
we saw that against arizona. he went 18-32 for 198 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT. then he left the game with a concussion.

i know which "eddie" you were refering to - it doesn't make it any more sensible though

Apparently you haven't watched many games this year, otherwise, it would make sense.

man the guy in 106 was killing me with his 3-20, go for it on every forth down, stanley "the shank" punter and turn to page two of the playbook sarcasim, man i could not stop laughing @ him lol :lol:

that was the best part of the game besides the punt return by pacman

IMO, Brown is a second-tier RB. He shows flashes but consistency has been an issue as it would be with all but a handful of RBs in the league if they played for the Titans right now. Like most RBs in the league, he thrives when the Titans have an effective passing game but has difficulty when teams can key on him as they have much of the season.

I don't see him ever doing what Eddie did in his prime as far as being effective when defenses stacked it in to stop him.

CB will never be as consistent as EG was. However, CB has the breakaway potential that Eddie didnt have. CB is also injury prone and cant get the short yardage, EG could play through most of the injuries and could get the short yardage. Its a give and take situation-you want a big play back, be prepared to take 10 2 yard carries before he breaks a 30 yard. If you want 3 yards a carry, dont expect many 30 yard runs.
CB is an above average, but not great RB. CB and Henry's jobs are secure because the Titans have more pressing needs elsewhere, so there will be no drafting of a RB with a high pick.

Volek has proven that he can't get the job done. At least Steve has winning experience. Not sure if Steve shouldn't reitre, maybe he should, but Volek sure as hell ain't the answer.


We did the same things under Dinger over the course of the last couple of years. I remember talking about the same exact play calling last year. For what ever reason it seems like everytime we need 7 or 8 yards we run a 2 or 3 yard route and turn the ball over.

Week Oline+ Mediocre RB+Absolutlely no passing game = No running game. All teams have to do is stop the run against us and they've got us beaten. We're one demesional.

Catch the ball.... Anyone! Please... Catch the damn ball!!! I can honestly say that we have the worst NFL recieving core that I've ever seen in my life. I've never seen a group of guys who are so scared of the ball like our guys. No leadership and no balls. And yes, there we some passes that didn't hit them directly in the chest but that's how it is. Sometimes you have to bend over or reach out to make a catch. Our recievers look like they've never played the game before.

Make your mind up.
First Volek has proven he can't get it done. Then in the same post we have a weak OL, mediocre RBs and crap at WR not to mention lousy play calling. How many games has Volek has to prove himself?

I really find it interesting that a running back that absolutely ran wild last year and was rushing for 100 yards before half time in many games is now mediocre. Or how about Henry, a solid NFL back who has shown us when he gets a little room to run can be pretty darn good.

Yes the OL is the main problem and the coaching scheme is a close second. Saying Volek has proven he can't get it done is ridiculous. How can a guy prove anything with a weak OL, no running game and by your own admission WRs who can't catch. Maybe if we just think this through we might realize that Volek is the same guy who lit it up against poor defenses last year. Are those guys suddenly bad players?
Volek has a better QB rating for his career than McNair.

I agree with TJ that CB is a 2nd tier RB. He has and will have some good games, but... I finally got to see a game-2nd one this year-and I disagree with some on this forum about Mac. I think he's okay. I wonder if he'd be getting all this criticism if his WR's were catching balls that hit them in the hands.

you guys will see what a real RB can do this Sunday, Im afraid its not going to be pretty.

Saying CB is a second tier running back is NOT a slam on Brown at all. There is a very short list of 1st tier running backs (5-6) and we may not have a running back in that short list for years even if we dumped Brown and Henry and used our 1st pick on a RB. Brown is actually having a better year than Curtis Martin, Julius Jones, Fred Taylor, Jamal Lewis, Cory Dillon and Kevin Jones. Not to mention Brown has about 100 yards and 3 TDs less because of penalties.
Have any of you guys seen the games? The poor blocking? As Maximus wrote, we have more pressing needs and no RB is going to be able to put up big numbers the way our line is playing.

It also amazes me how posters knock Volek like he is a garbage QB, cannot get it done, not the answer yet McNair gets every excuse in the world. True McNair isn't all the problem but he is our starting QB and we have a ridiculously terrible 3rd down efficiency and haven't scored a TD for more than 2 games (the Texans are a garbage defense). McNair does not do the little things well like making good fakes, looking off defenders (he stares at his WR) and what about the freedom he is supposed to have at the LOS to change the play? McNair isn't exactly Payton Manning up there the way he disects the defense. Heck half the reason our screen plays don't usually work well is because McNair is 1/8 the QB Manning is when selling the defense. Anyone can throw 5 yard passes anyway and we would not and could not be any worse with Volek or Mauck. 90% of McNair's passing yards last game were runs after the catch.

The only bright spot has been the play of Brown and Henry running and catching. Without those guys the offense might as well quick punt, hope our defense can get a turnover or hold them and hope Pacman can return the punt.

I also want ot go on record as saying EG's YPC with this OL would be close to zero.

Don't get me wrong, just cause I said those things doesn't mean I dislike CB. I like CB alot and loved every second of his big runs last year, but the fact remains, as Jeff said, he isn't a 1st tier RB which makes him a average at best back like I said. If we spent a 1st on a RB this year I would seriously kick the FO one by one - we have more pressing needs. But that doesn't mean maybe later down the stretch we'll draft a RB again in the 1st. I honestly feel for us to return to where we were, we need to go back to what made us good and that's est. our old power running game and tough-as-nails defense. IMO, CB isn't the type of back Fisher likes and it will become apparent in later seasons.

I really do miss EG and I'm sure alot of posters here feel the same way. Like someone stated above, I loved it when EG would still beat people (in his prime of course) when they stacked the line. As for people bashing the weak OLine play, look at Dominik Davis - the guy is having a better season behind an even crapier OLine than ours. Chris couldn't even do much at all, against the worst rushing team in the NFL unless he was catching the ball.

How do we get the run game better? We have 2 above average rb's imo playing behind below average line play.

I'd like Shawn Alexander, but that's probably a pipe dream....or maybe a bottom of the bottle dream :drunk:

I think we have almost no chance at Bush.

DeAngelo looks really good, but is he worth as high of a pick as we'll have or should we stick with our 2 headed monstrosity and try to upgrade their blocking?

I'm leaning towards better blocking above all else.

We do NOT want Shaun Alexander. Not only is he nearing the twilight of his career, but he runs behind one of the best run blocking lines in the NFL.

He's also on the soft side, and is not a team player.

If he was as good as his numbers indicate, Seattle would have already locked him up to a long-term deal. But they haven't, and that should tell you something. Holmgren knows how good his OL is.

Where's the proof that Alexander's entering the twilight of his career?

I don't think this guy has any serious personality issues, at least nothing like a lot of other good players (some already on our team).

Maybe Edge isn't that good either since he hasn't been locked up? I don't buy that.

But I doubt the Titans will buy Alexander either. I bet he gets more money than we're willing to give or can give.

I'd say we upgrade the blocking, Bobo, then utilize Brown more as a runner and Henry as a reciever. Henry seems to do better when catching the ball. As for Joe Z's comments on Alexander, I agree. He whined over 1 yard last year and not getting the rushing title. He's not as good as he thinks he is and he's all about himself. He's the T.O. of Running Backs. No Thanks.

He whined over the rushing title, then immediately apologized for it. So he's a TO? Is this a knee jerk reaction or are we not giving TO his credit? Remember, he worked very hard to get the title of "league's biggest a-hole" :lol:

Missing EG?
For those who miss EG remember that we did have a better OL at the peak of EGs career than we have now. After EGs injury it took 300 carries for EG to break 1000 yards.

On Alexander, he is a top tier back that runs with good power, quickness, balance, vision and speed. He does have a good OL but he is also very good. He has been as consistent as any back in the league over the last 5 years, doesn't get hurt and has an amazing 83 TDs over that span. I do agree that if he ran behind the OL we have his YPC would be about .5 yards less with fewer TDs but he is in his prime and possibly the best in the NFL.
Why the Hawks don't throw the ball to him more is puzzling but apparently that is not their style on offense. In 2002 he had 59 catches for 460 yards but only has 72 yards recieving this year.
Maybe the reason they have not locked him up (same as with James) is it is safer to keep franchising a RB each year. RBs are only one injury away from going from the best in the league to EG status. Without a long-term commitment the team protects themselves. If another team wants to foot the bill they can give up two first round picks.

Well, he'll be turning 29 in 2006, which is mighty close to 30. He also has alot of tread on his tires... wherever he ends up, he won't be as good as he was with Seattle.

He'll start his decline either next season or the season after.

I don't think he's a TO, but he's not a team player either. Seattle has even tried resigning him to a fair deal, and he continues to holdout for more money. Whichever team overpays for his services will acquire him, and will regret doing so about halfway into his first season.

There's no set date that a RB's wheels fall off. He shows no signs of slowing down, that's what I go by. And I wouldn't expect him to look as good behind our o-line, but I still think he's one of the top backs in the league that is truely a complete back.

I wouldn't go by one incident to judge his character. I don't know what's been offered to him contract wise and if it's considered fair, but I think it'd have to be about as high as a contract for a rb can get.

Maybe the reason they have not locked him up (same as with James) is it is safer to keep franchising a RB each year.

Alexander can't be franchised this year. It is part of his contract.

There's no set date that a RB's wheels fall off. He shows no signs of slowing down, that's what I go by.

All it takes is one case of turf toe...:suspect:

Well, he'll be turning 29 in 2006, which is mighty close to 30. He also has alot of tread on his tires... wherever he ends up, he won't be as good as he was with Seattle.

Seattle treated him the same way Indy has treated Edgerrin James, essentially. Let them play out a long rookie contract (pretty cheap given the production they put up), don't given them an extension with one year left like a lot of guys/non-RBs get as they near the end of the rookie deal, then franchise the guy after the rookie deal runs out. And probably go looking for the next guy since now the RB is getting up in years

It's true they are reluctant to sign him to a big multiyear extension that averaged what a back with his credentials would be getting (franchise values) but that doesn't mean he didn't deserve it.

There would be legitimate concern about signing a 29-year-old RB to a longterm deal now. Same way you might not want to give that money to a 29-year-old corner.

First round running backs who sign 6-year deals better get all they can in those rookie contracts, because these days it's getting harder for them to get a second one if they're 28 or so when the first one runs out.

So is Alexander selfish or is Seattle selfish :suspect: