A good read and some excellent insight.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060122/COLUMNISTS01/601220468/1004/SPORTS

I've met Manning. I've admired him for a long time for how he handles himself on and off the field. But I don't think he deals well with adversity or the shortcomings of those around him.

There's more to be great than just being great at something. And being great needs no promotion, apologies or excuses.

And BTW, Archie needs to stay home on the La-Z-Boy and STFU.

Archie needs to learn to stay on the sidelines....in the shadows...in the back of the crowd with his mouth shut. I have been an Archie fan...my father, a die hard Ole Miss fan starting in the 60s, took me to see Archie play a couple of times. I liked him.

Now he has been placed on some iconic shelf that seems to afford him the luxury of hammering anyone that criticizes his two sons. He has no business criticizing Bradshaw. TB simply said what others in front of the cameras wont because they have no spines...he lacked leadership....that is a fact he clearly has shown whenever he faced adversity like this.

Peyton has obviously bought the media's version of himself..that he is the best to take a snap and now he has to face the fact that maybe he is simply one of the best...tough row to hoe....

And if you thought Manning threw the offensive line under the Greyhound, let's just say that Polian drove the bus, backed over his offensive line a few times, then did some doughnuts.

I liked this part...:ha:

and this part too...
He knew he not only had fallen short of reaching the Super Bowl, again, but was looking at another long offseason of being called a big-game flop and worse.

that's good stuff...:sad2:

He has no business criticizing Bradshaw.

And between the two, which one is sought for opinion every Sunday?

Good article, pretty balanced... Any colts fans willing to admit it?

Good article, pretty balanced... Any colts fans willing to admit it?
http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35860#post35860

We'll see...

That was a pretty good article. Manning has to loosen up if he ever expects to win the big one. I can see what the article is saying about him taking the burden on his shoulders, but his attitude is secretly like someone robbed him of something that was already his, which it wasn't. Oh yeah, and they did have "protection issues."

Vanderjagt handling it better is rather shocking.

Vanderjagt handling it better is rather shocking.
Did you hear about the 47 yarder he nailed outside the David Letterman studio?
I heard he did it in slacks and dress shoes...Split 'em...:ha: :))

http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/news_story.asp?ID=151602

''Peyton is the Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan of football,'' said Vanderjagt. ''I'd give him a little leeway. . .'' - Mike Vanderjagt

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39087000/jpg/_39087321_mickelson203.jpg
More like the Phil Mickelson...

If football was a 5 man sport, the Colts would be in the championship every year.

Keep in mind Kravitz is a 'columnist', not a 'reporter'. Columnists write 'opinions' (and stir s^!t up)...reporters write 'articles'.

IMO what Peyton said wasn't really all that big of a deal, and I haven't heard anyone on the team pissing and moaning about what he said. Polian has said the same things Peyton said after the game (in much clearer terms, no less) but nobody's jumping on Bill about it. It was something the national media could take and run with so they did, but it's not a big deal IMO.

and I haven't heard anyone on the team pissing and moaning about what he said.

they probably classy enough not to take it to the media.

http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35860#post35860

We'll see...

"Supporting the greatest regular season team of all time since '95 "

Signature from one of the posters on coltfreaks. Classic.

From a supporter of the greatest 4-12 team in the World from Tennesee......

"Supporting the greatest regular season team of all time since '95 "

Signature from one of the posters on coltfreaks. Classic.

From a supporter of the greatest 4-12 team in the World from Tennesee......
this is a post from the same guy over there...
even funnier...

Originally Posted by tony dungy
OOOOOOPS my bad, oh wait we saw what happened in the regular season you fool. I'm not gonna back down from defending my team in the regular season. IMO they are the greatest regular season team in the history of football captained by the greatest regular season QB of all time. I'm not here to discuss playoffs lets make that clear.

Keep in mind Kravitz is a 'columnist', not a 'reporter'. Columnists write 'opinions' (and stir s^!t up)...reporters write 'articles'.

IMO what Peyton said wasn't really all that big of a deal, and I haven't heard anyone on the team pissing and moaning about what he said. Polian has said the same things Peyton said after the game (in much clearer terms, no less) but nobody's jumping on Bill about it. It was something the national media could take and run with so they did, but it's not a big deal IMO.

Yeah..uh huh...I am sure if someone on the O-line had said something like "well..we win as a team and lose as a team...but when a team blitzes the ball has to get out quicker..." I am sure it would have been taken as just the facts.

This stuff can boil up into something more than it is but at the present it is mild and merely just a bunch of guys who are really frustrated with the loss.

Look i lived in illinois during the bulls championship era and some of the things that jordan and pippen did make this look like nothing. In one practice jordan had steve kerr guarding him and phil jackson was letting kerr get away with some fouls to make it equal. We ll jordan slapped kerr! An entire book(the jordan rules) was written about jordan's arrogant and abusive behaivor towards his termates and he routinely called out his team mates in public. Bill cartwright and horace grant actually threatened to break his legs if he didn't back down some.

Scottie pippen once sat down refusing to participate in the final play of a playoff game just because he wasn't getting the final shot! He hated tony kukoc because he made more money.

That was a team that won 6 championships.

What peyton said was wrong. I don't think he needs to apologize for it but he shouldn't have said it. And polian shouldn't have gone to such effort to support it.

As for archie's comments? It's hard to knock a guy for loving his son. My son is only a year and a half old but i can see how it is hard not to want to go to bat for someone when you care so much but archie makes money as a cable network analyst now and needs to be impartial. Same with phil simms and his son and it is the same for the president and his dad. Sometimes you just need to be quiet because you are not doing him any favors.

Archie Manning needs to sit down with Phil Simms and ask him how to act when you're kid is a starting QB in the NFL. The only time Simms has made any comment about anything news worthy about his kid was when his son's upbringing was questioned for lack of toughness by Steve Young on ESPN. Simms called out Young and left it at that.

As far as Peyton, he needs to stop being a water walker, be a teammate and STF up. He's talented, and yes, half the state of Tennessee named their first born after him and his frankenstein head. But he's not above being questioned on his play, just like any other pro athlete.

Throwing your offensive line under the bus isn't being a leader. That same Oline that's kept him clean for the past few years. You know it won't happen, but it'd be great to see Tarik Glenn "olay" a couple defensive ends next year and let Payton get knocked on his ear a few times. Then he'd have a reason to mouth off about the Oline.

O-line is responsible for primary blocking schemes of LB's and D-line.

The QB is responsible for recognizing the blitz, directing/audibling the ball out away (draw, slip screen, roll-out etc) or directing a blocking RB to pick it up. Edge and Peyton are more to blame for the failure than the O-line. The Steelers exposed Peyton's inability to counter the unknown blitzer with physical skills like rolling out or "tuck and run". Porter is fast and tough- give him credit too.

I'm just PO'd Schwartz didn't try it. Woolfolk's uncle and I were saying on another thread at least try blitzing his ***** alot earlier.

Watch the Pitt/Indy GOTW on NFL Network. It's crystal clear the O-line was having problems.
Peyton was in a no-win situation in the press conference no matter what he said (or didn't say). He's either TOO PC or not PC enough. The haters will always hate. Thankfully Peyton's got broad enough shoulders to handle whatever the haters throw his way.

Yes, but he was in trouble either way because he lost again.

The haters will always hate.
This is true.

"Even without the turnovers, if we lose, I take the blame on this one," the Broncos' quarterback said yesterday after his four turnovers contributed mightily to the Broncos' 34-17 loss to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game. "That's my job. As a quarterback, I have to lead this team to a win, and I didn't get that job done."

Is this too PC or not PC enough?

"Even without the turnovers, if we lose, I take the blame on this one," the Broncos' quarterback said yesterday after his four turnovers contributed mightily to the Broncos' 34-17 loss to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game. "That's my job. As a quarterback, I have to lead this team to a win, and I didn't get that job done."

Is this too PC or not PC enough?


Thats him being careful with his words because he heard and read all week how the media threw manning under the bus and he doesnt want the same fate Im sure. Jake has been labeled a choker and stupid decision maker his whole career, you can bet he was going to come off as the perfect team mate knowing how he is perceived, plus seeing the media circle jerk over Mannings interview.

... Thankfully Peyton's got broad enough shoulders to handle whatever the haters throw his way.

Personally, I think Peyton is THE top pocket passer in the NFL. However, his weakness is his lack of physical skills- he has never had to develop this part of his game because of his talent at reading defenses and getting the ball out quick by making the appropriate check-down. That's why, IMO, he is not (and won't ever be) the BEST QB in the NFL.

Give the Steelers credit- they had Peyton confused and Porter and others were taking angles that no O-lineman could adjust to. In a situation like this, the RB usually picks up the blitz and/or the QB rolls-out, checks down or audibles to a draw. It didn't happen. In that situation, it's up to the QB to make something happen (vis-a-vis Steve McNair in the 2002 season).

Manning was WRONG to put it on his line without saying he was deficient in his play.

First of all, Jake would rather have not been in front of the cameras. That's not his thing.

2nd why don't we blame the Pittsburgh Steelers defense for both losses (Colts & Broncos). They figured out how to rattle the QB, especially Manning which I've said for years. New England did it regularly; San Diego made it look easy; and Pittsburgh just took the idea and made it a classic.

Why doesn't the defense coordinators pay attention to how they did it? They know if Manning has all the time he wants, if it's in the same zip code, it's a catch. Well get your defensive butts in his face and he'll fail every time.

That post makes no sense. If you don't have time to throw the ball you will find it hard to locate open receivers. Plain and simple. You talk about these "physical skills". Does tom brady have them? Is he a great runner? He has won 3 super bowls! Just because manning can't move out of the pocket like a young steve mcnair doesn't mean he can't be effective. No QB is effective with only a second to throw.

That one joey porter sack came because nobody touched him. The colts had max protect with edge and clark in the backfield and clark went to help out inside leaving porter a clean run to the QB. That is poor fundamentals and one of the problems with using a TE in the backfield.

If there was some universal formula to stop this guy nobody has found it on a consistent basis. Normally sending the kitchen sink at manning has been a recipe for disaster. The steelers were good enough to make it work.

Doesn't jake plummer have those physical skills you taked about? How did he do?

You don't think teams have tried to blitz manning before? You think it has only been done a few times in the last 3 years? That's nonsense. Of course teams have tried that and many have found themselves down by 21 points before the game even starts. Most of the time it HAS NOT worked because manning gets the ball out so quick.

Any passing game is going to have problems with less time to throw. The QB has less time to locate a receiver and receivers have less time to get open. That's a no brainer! But what happens when your corners can't cover their WRs and you don't have defenders in the middle like polamalu or rodney harrison? You get toasted. Marvin harrsison has a 150 yard day and dallas clark is running wide open down the middle of the field.

It always kills me when guys like you think that blitzing the colts offense is something new. It's not! But for every game that manning has struggled in the last 3 seasons there are about 7 where he has lit someone up and there is no way you can blitz a lot of people and cover those receivers.

That post makes no sense. If you don't have time to throw the ball you will find it hard to locate open receivers. Plain and simple. You talk about these "physical skills". Does tom brady have them? Is he a great runner? He has won 3 super bowls! Just because manning can't move out of the pocket like a young steve mcnair doesn't mean he can't be effective. No QB is effective with only a second to throw.

That one joey porter sack came because nobody touched him. The colts had max protect with edge and clark in the backfield and clark went to help out inside leaving porter a clean run to the QB. That is poor fundamentals and one of the problems with using a TE in the backfield.

If there was some universal formula to stop this guy nobody has found it on a consistent basis. Normally sending the kitchen sink at manning has been a recipe for disaster. The steelers were good enough to make it work.

Doesn't jake plummer have those physical skills you taked about? How did he do?

I agree with most everything you're saying. Although Brady is slow, he is faster and gets out of the pocket better than Manning. He has as good an ability to read defenses and make appropriate check-downs. IMO, he's a better QB than Manning. He also has intangible leadership skills.

I agree that others have tried to blitz Colts and got burned. I agree that the Steelers deserve alot of credit because they made it work. However, there was something unique in the disguised LB blitzes that confused Manning and the Line. I saw 2 or three plays where the MLB pulled out and blitzed from around the end- something that requires alot of speed. Plus Porter played a helluva game.

excerpt from http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/nfl/specials/playoffs/2005/01/22/look.ahead.ap/ where Seahawks are prepping for SB.

".....There might be one factor favoring the Steelers.

They play one of the most effective 3-4 defenses in the NFL, blitzing linebackers from different angles, usually starting with Joey Porter from the outside.

Seattle played only one 3-4 all season -- against Dallas -- and had all kinds of trouble with it, finally winning 13-10 by scoring 10 points in the final 40 seconds. The Cowboys held the Seahawks, who finished second in the NFL yards per game with 370 to 289 yards by jamming nine and 10 men at the line of scrimmage and bumping Seattle's receivers.

"It's different," said center Robbie Tobeck, who played in the 1999 Super Bowl with Atlanta. "They have a great defensive line. Fortunately, we have a couple of weeks to prepare for them."


In regards to Plummer- Gimme a break. His physical skill are good but his decision making is nowhere close to Brady's or Manning's for that matter. I should clarify my point that the elite QB's have a combination of excellent decision making and physical skills to "bail out" the team when faced with innovative schemes like the Steelers are currently running. Obviously, I don't believe Manning has the physical skills (legs) to help "bail out". Don't get me wrong- I think Manning is THE best pocket passer in the NFL, just not what I'd consider "elite".

Watch the Pitt/Indy GOTW on NFL Network.The haters will always hate. Thankfully Peyton's got broad enough shoulders to handle whatever the haters throw his way.

Actually, he shoulders must not be able handle what the "haters" throw his way because if they were he would shoulder it. But he chose to turf it to his OL so they can carry the weight of the loss on their shoulders. Broad shoulders would have been I didn't handle the blitz well.

In my opinion the previous statement is the problem. Hell, he isn't the only QB to get blitzed. The problems is not a lot of people tried this season or last season for that matter. So when it happened, it was unfamiliar and he did not know what to do. Manning is a great studier, watches tons of game film but when he sees something unfamiliar he can't adjust. He was expecting and didn't have a plan B. Since he chooses to call his owns plays, that makes him the primary problem. Calling out his O-line who was good enough to help him win 13 straight to start the season is unfair. Pittsburgh brought everything but the kitchen sink, at some point to expect the O-line to pick up that everytime is crazy. Maybe just as crazy as saying Manning should have thrown for 400 yards despite the blitz.

"Protection" doesn't mean the offensive line... riiiiiiiight.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060202/SPORTS03/602020435/1100

"Protection" doesn't mean the offensive line... riiiiiiiight.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060202/SPORTS03/602020435/1100


IN fairness, he did say "we", which in the english language obviously includes him, so not sure how he is reflecting blame when he clearly included himself in that blame. I still think this is an issue created by journalists with way to much time on their hands and a lack of reading comprehension skills.

Thats surprising... he's so full of himself, I didnt there would be room to be full of crap too.

"Protection" doesn't mean the offensive line... riiiiiiiight.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060202/SPORTS03/602020435/1100

Jeff in that article thats also not what he is saying. He is saying that protection is more than just the offensive line, and again, he said "we" which clearly includes him. Some of you guys need to just admit that if peyton was the second coming of christ you would still find ways to criticize him, this is ridiculous.

A little off topic, but I upgraded to digital cable yesterday and my new package includes the NFL Channel (woo hoo!). Anyway, I turned it on this morning and they were having a press conference/awards ceremony for NFL man of the year. Peyton won the award.

In his acceptance speech, he talked about a kid helped by his foundation who had a crack addict mother and had been placed in a foster home. He compared that situation to his memory of being a 4 year old child riding on a catamaran without his parents permission with Walter Payton.

Sounds reasonable enough to me.

Jeff in that article thats also not what he is saying. He is saying that protection is more than just the offensive line, and again, he said "we" which clearly includes him. Some of you guys need to just admit that if peyton was the second coming of christ you would still find ways to criticize him, this is ridiculous.
"We" may mean "us" but "protection" means "the act of protecting" and that is done by those who block when discussing football.

As I've stated here before, I have nothing but admiration for the guy in just about everything I know about him except how he deals with defeat.

"We" may mean "us" but "protection" means "the act of protecting" and that is done by those who block when discussing football.

As I've stated here before, I have nothing but admiration for the guy in just about everything I know about him except how he deals with defeat.


Thats fine, but he still never singled out the Oline at anytime, and he never said it didnt include the Oline. This is some sort orwellian newspeak where if peyton says "we" it = "they". I think this whole situation was caused by shotty journalism, its not Peytons fault the media is fascinated with him. Criticizing his game is one thing, puttting words in his mouth and changing the meaning of his quotes is pretty ****ty journalism though.

"We" may mean "us" but "protection" means "the act of protecting" and that is done by those who block when discussing football.

As I've stated here before, I have nothing but admiration for the guy in just about everything I know about him except how he deals with defeat.

Yes, and it also entails schemes, and game planning, and calling out protections, and playcalling and this and that, which is certainly part of what peyton does.

And my last post wasnt entirely directed towards you, I dont agree with you on this point but you do give credit where credit is due. It was more meant for the people so blinded by homerism that they can never give manning credit for anything.

That's fine. But go back to the first post. Read the comments in the context it was presented.

"I'm trying to be a good teammate here..."

"I'm looking for the safe word here, guys..."

Kravitz is about as close to Manning and the Colts as one can be. He says in the article that Peyton has this dealing with failure issue and I see his latest comments as just adding more fuel to the fire.

:lol2: - Man, I hate when that happens.

The stupidest thing Goober said was, "I'm trying to be a good teammate here". In other words, "It wasn't my fault so listen up, the next thing out of my mouth will be a blame dart"

The stupidest thing Goober said was, "I'm trying to be a good teammate here". In other words, "It wasn't my fault so listen up, the next thing out of my mouth will be a blame dart"
:lol2:

Blame dart.

That's fine. But go back to the first post. Read the comments in the context it was presented.

"I'm trying to be a good teammate here..."

"I'm looking for the safe word here, guys..."

Kravitz is about as close to Manning and the Colts as one can be. He says in the article that Peyton has this dealing with failure issue and I see his latest comments as just adding more fuel to the fire.

I do agree he shouldnt have prefaced it with that, but at the end of the day I think he took his share of blame too, and this is just the media with nothing else to write about. Not to mention what he said was accurate.

If I were Peyton I think I would refuse interviews or just take the Belicheck approach and give one word answers from now on.

A little off topic, but I upgraded to digital cable yesterday and my new package includes the NFL Channel (woo hoo!). Anyway, I turned it on this morning and they were having a press conference/awards ceremony for NFL man of the year. Peyton won the award.

In his acceptance speech, he talked about a kid helped by his foundation who had a crack addict mother and had been placed in a foster home. He compared that situation to his memory of being a 4 year old child riding on a catamaran without his parents permission with Walter Payton.

Sounds reasonable enough to me.
This has got to be the best post I've read all day...
This is so telling...

Reading the transcript of the speech and watching the video are as different as smoking crack with Hommie De Clown and going to Chuckie Cheese with Walter Payton...

Peyton's tone was smug and arrogant...This man laughed his ***** off when he saw the kick sail no good... 52 other guys, a coaching staff, and millions of Colts fans watched that kick sail horribly no good...It was Peyton and everybody here at gotitans.com that was laughing...what is wrong with that picture?

Peyton is full of crap. He is not class. He's a cancer.:evil: A very talented cancer... Peyton just looks like a good guy to most... The reality is that he is some kind of black hole that sucks up positive energy and craps on people. He's got the jinx because he has that garbage personality that is out of touch with the team... He just is pathetic enough to do enough lip service to offset the perception that he is the way he is.:sad2: