Any way you look at it, Bus Cook wants McNair to be paid $10 million for the 2006 season. Is he worth it?

I wish I knew how far that would go in the way of talent to help this team.
Can't really put a price on a good education...

http://www.webster.edu/~terrij/old_labwebs/Old-jonester/WebGraphicsDesign/Project/graduate_baby.jpeg

I have a hard time justifying it when he is on the backside of his career... add-in the fact that we're sitting 3rd in the draft with a'least 2 legit projected franchise Quarterback and a 3rd that could go either way. I don't see us in the position to take advantage of this kind of opportunity anytime soon. 95' was the last time and it established ourselves for 10 plus years.

I see no advantages to using the cap space now as opposed to later. In fact it is better used later when we are more attractive as a team. McNair is our best player and we have the money to give him. Why not. It does not slow our progress any. We are a better team with McNair than Volek and some retreads that the top tier teams did not want.

95' was the last time and it established ourselves for 10 plus years.

not really, it took Steve 3 years (as a QB) to get going and he's slowed considerably in the last 2

realistically <gulp> Steve has never really been an "ELITE" QB
he only threw for 20+ TD's 'thrice' and never threw more than 24
he threw for 16 or less TD's in 8 of his 11 years
he threw for over 3,000 yards only 5 times and never over 3,400
he hasn't rushed for more than 140 yards in 3 years
he's only played an entire season 3 times in his career
and he has rushed for only TWO td's in the last 2 years

as much as I love the guy, it's time to cut losses

put this resume in front of an NFL GM and ask for $10million
it might sound something like this "Bahaaahhahahahahaaahhhaaaaa!"

What about the ability to aquire another high caliber quality LB to give our defense some teeth over the long run. A first time UFA coming in...

I hope we can get the best of both words.

http://www.versaillesrecords.com/images/VH_COVER.JPG

"Bahaaahhahahahahaaahhhaaaaa!"
:ha: :lol3:
:boom:
:thumb:

Is that basically the $9 mil salary and the $1 mil option bonus?

And what would that take us to in terms of cap savings?

I think $7-8 is fair. Give him some TD bonus, yardage bonus, run bonus. I doubt he goes for that, it's kind of insulting. $10M only if it is saving us some money.

But I don't think getting rid of him is smart, either. It's more damaging than losing EG. Doubt McNair is holding us hostage. Cook has been relatively quiet for years, and now his cycle is coming around again. His chest has gotten soft from not throwing it around for so long.

Cook reps Young...this is of no impact? :hmm:
A tale of two backs in EG & JB?
Handing off a legacy?:greedy:

Priceless. He's staying.
Reece lacks the balls to shove McNair off the boat.
They need to put something in his contract
about some secret off shore account.
That'll get-r-done.

anything over 2 million a yr is to much

One of my contacts says he heard that Reese offered McNair $6million per season for 2 seasons.. Also several (more than 1) veteran QB's have expressed interest in coming here, at less money than we have offered Steve, and they will to start for 1 to 1 1/2 years and then stay on as the backup for a year or so..anybody hear this??

if it's true I suspect Steve may seek the open market

Also several (more than 1) veteran QB's have expressed interest in coming here,

who ?

if it's true I suspect Steve may seek the open market

Na Na Na Na, Hey Hey, Good Bye :brow:

Don't know ..I asked the same question.. of course this may be Reese posturing his side.. but Steve must have an offer of $9-10 million on the table so we may be doing him a favor by letting him go and see if he can get his ring in Miami..

Ring in Miami, i think not.

Ratbirds like all the other thankless B'tards

i'll give him $10mill for TWO years... but not for ONE

Ratbirds like all the other thankless B'tards

i can actually see him going there too.

put this resume in front of an NFL GM and ask for $10million
it might sound something like this "Bahaaahhahahahahaaahhhaaaaa!"


Garbage. This league is starved of decent QBs.

Off the top of my head, the following teams would be upgraded immediately with McNair at QB.

Arizona, Baltimore, Buffalo, Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, New York Jets, Oakland, San Francisco, Tampa Bay and potentially Dallas.

Is $10m "value for money"? Maybe not. But I reckon someone would be willing to pay it. And I'm damn sure there isn't a better available QB to lead our team in 2007.

If Houston keeps Carr, and it looks like they plan to, the only teams out there that are on the way up, and could go to the playoffs next year and need a qb are Miami and Dallas.. Tampa and Chicago are set, but I guess New Orleans might want Steve to mentor VY..

If we give up Steve, it's going to be for some team's first round pick, whether anyone here thinks he's worth it or not. I'll say, I do. Odds may seem against it, but I believe in Steve's ability to make a comeback more than Eddie. I'd really hate to play against Steve.

But if NO wants Steve, I'll take their #2. Same with AZ, Miami, Baltimore, New York, Oakland, San Fran, Dallas, whomever. No way I give up a mentor and capable player for less. That move would be so much more decimating than anyone could expect. Well, I expect it, I guess.

If it did happen, I'm clearly taking a QB, and Volek can be the p'od Chandler for a while.

Maybe I do take Brick at #3. If the next pick is close enough - Jets, Oakland, SF - I take Leinart/Cutler. If Houston takes Young and Steve goes to NO, I'm gonna shock the world for the F'un of it and take Bush and Leinart.

But no no no....that can't happen. No way do I give up Steve. Too soon. We give up #9, we pick at least that high next year, no matter who we have. Sorry.

I can't think of any team that would be willing to drop a 1st rounder on a player that has at most two more good years. I'd be willing to trade him for a 2nd or a 1st from next year though if we can't work something out...

Look, they are going to come to a deal. There's no need to get worked up over what an agent says to the media.

Look, they are going to come to a deal. There's no need to get worked up over what an agent says to the media.


I agree, this is just the agent trying to get his player paid the most he can, which is the agents job. There are probably several other teams willing to take Mcnair, but they arent going to give him any more money than we will.

Look, they are going to come to a deal. There's no need to get worked up over what an agent says to the media.
Agreed. Its just an agent trying to get more money. I think McNair will resign for less than 10 million.

Priceless. He's staying.
Reece lacks the balls to shove McNair off the boat.
They need to put something in his contract
about some secret off shore account.
That'll get-r-done.



Nope.... saying Reese has no balls is insane, damn he cut loose of Warren Moon after a MVP type season and a Probowl appearence. If Mcnair doesnt want to play ball, hes gone. Simple as that.

how the hell do you cut Warren Moon for Cody Carlson???

you should get fired for that kind of stupidity.

You have to remember, that was at the beginning of the salary cap, and the Oilers had to slash their roster to get under the cap. Moon had a big contract, so they traded him.

i thought Moon and Carlson had to same contract and they kept the latter because he was younger.

I wasn't an Oilers fan, so I'm not positive, but I think Carlson was much cheaper (not to mention younger)

if Moon and Carlson had the same contract Reese should have been fired

true dat

I looked it up.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_n11_v217/ai_14887932

Moon's contract ($3.25M) was pretty similar to Carlson's ($3M). But Moon was 38, had more trade value, and he hadn't gotten them to a Super Bowl when they were contenders. Plus, they thought Carlson would be better than he turned out (Billy Volek, anyone?).

Plus, Floyd Reese was a new GM and I'm guessing he did what Bud told him to do since Bud was far more involved on a day-to-day basis when the team was still in Houston.

Nope.... saying Reese has no balls is insane, damn he cut loose of Warren Moon after a MVP type season and a Probowl appearence. If Mcnair doesnt want to play ball, hes gone. Simple as that.
Well okay then...btw- I never said I wasn't insane...:lol3: How about this then...?
All of this hinges upon whether we take a quarterback with the first pick and who that said quarterback is. Maybe if Young is taken at #3 McNair stays, gets paid 8 million or something...If Leinart somehow falls to us then all of a sudden paying McNair a whole boatload of money doesn't make sense anymore and he either stays for as little as Reese thinks he can get away with or McNair buzzes off to the Raiders, Dolphins, or Jets...in which case we would keep Volek, thus guaranteeing a losing season and another high draft pick to get that next stud offensive player we need. (RB) Then we can let Chris Brown fly to FA and really work on shoring up OL, LB, FS/SS...I'd say we'd really be poised to compete after one more crap year...

You really think that Reese would draft Young and ditch McNair?
That's kinda insane, I think. (on Floyd's part of course.)

I don't think Leinart can just step in and light it up either... In any scenario, our best bet is to keep McNair for another year or two and trade Volek. I doubt we do any better than a mid 3rd though. Probably more like a 4th.

I'd be delighted to get a third for Volek at this point. But I just don't see anyone willing to deal for him.

I don't think Leinart can just step in and light it up either... In any scenario, our best bet is to keep McNair for another year or two and trade Volek. I doubt we do any better than a mid 3rd though. Probably more like a 4th.
Agreed on the Leinart point. The question on my mind is whether the money spent tying up McNair could be better used in the way of obtaining defensive FAs. I just see McNair as crucial if Young is drafted but to a lesser extent with another draft pick. Trust me, I'm not trying to make a case for Volek MVP or anything...

If Reese had planned on McNair not taking a paycut and taking the $10M, and we will still be able to resign KVB and other defensive players, then I have no problem with him getting the money. If Reese did not plan on this and it will cause us to not have any cap to resign Kyle and other good defensive players, then we need to either get McNair's contract or release him.

Is it his total per year package that would count against the cap or just salary? In 2005 he made $9M in salary but counted $27.5M against the cap. Yes $27.5M! I don't see a single post that even mentions that. Looking at that comparison $10m doesn't seem so bad.

For a 12 year vet QB who has been a good player that is not an outrageous number and more likely he will play for a little less than that. But a $10m pay package means that he counts $17M less against the cap which is more than enough to get a reggie wayne or cato june on board. Wouldn't that be great to sign those 2 guys away from the colts?:greedy:

Tide- mac only cost us 7.1mil in cap hit last yr. He played for the near the vet minimum and then had the rest in restructured SB.

I think we all agree that Mac is not worth 10mil a yr. Problem is that he has old SB money that will hit the cap forsure to go on top of his base salary and new signing bonus.

I personally think that on the open market Mac would be worth more around 5mil a year.

I quoted the fiqures wrong. The 27.5M a year package would be for 2006. Yes he only counted $7.1M against the cap in 2005.

Still the point is the same. Even if we signed him for $10M we save $17M from his current contract. My guess is that he will play for $8-9M which is reasonable for a player with his credentials. We can save another $6M by letting olson go and we would save some on henry's contract if they can come to terms. We don't gain much by letting hopkins go so the issue would be to reneg his $10M contract or retirement.

Off topic i know but i wonder what you guys think of this idea. Dump olson, sign hartwig but also sign bentley the FA center from the saints. We get an upgrade at center and hartwig plays olson's guard spot. Hartwig is probably a better guard than center anyway and his versatility is nice to have.

Releasing Hoppy will save 3.5 mil which isn't chump change. I'd let him walk. I'd also let Lamont Thompson walk saving 1.3 mil. I'd let Henry hit the open market and then have him come crawling back to sign a vet minimum deal. With the number of guys that look to be hitting the market and with him being 1 strike away from a full yr suspension I just don't see Henry signing anything for much more than the vet min.

In terms of Hartwig, what makes you think that he would be a better guard? The one time he really struggles is when he has a guy playing right on his nose against 3-4 defenses. He just plays too high and gets shoved into the backfield. I think it would be very easy to replace hartwig and not miss his production/leadership.

The 27.5M figure for 2006 is arrived at by pro-rating the 50M out over the next four years. It won't happen.

The 10M new money this year is 9M base + 1M to terminate the contract. The remaining SB amoritization would have to be added to that to get his cap number for 2006.

His agent, Bus Cook, wants some additional unspecified money this year above the 10M if the contract is extended/restructured beyond 2006.

The options are:
1. Cut him and save about 13M off the 27M
2. Pay the 9M +1M and allow his contract to expire and have a cap # of about 23M in 2006.
3. Do a new deal and push part of the 9M + any new money into the future in the form of a signing bonus. That allows us to reduce his current cap number but creates the very real potential for future dead money when the team should be more competitive, depending on the structure of the deal.

In terms of Hartwig, what makes you think that he would be a better guard? The one time he really struggles is when he has a guy playing right on his nose against 3-4 defenses. He just plays too high and gets shoved into the backfield. I think it would be very easy to replace hartwig and not miss his production/leadership.
Hartwig would be crushed as a guard, IMO.

I'm not convinced he much better at center than what Amano would be. I don't see him getting signed before March 1.

Why would he struggle more at guard than at center? Makes no sense to me. He was a decent backup guard before the forced move to center. At guard he is blocking the same people most of the time. Actually at guard he would pull more and get angle blocks on inside linebackers.

What would be easier, snapping the ball and then having to block a 320 lb guy, or simply blocking a 320 lb guy?


I don't know how anyone can make a broad brush arguement against signing this guy. He has been our starting center for 3 straight years. He certainly wouldn't cost us that much money. Everyone assumes that olson will be gone, many assume that hopkins will be gone. So who is going to play on the inside in 2006? Bell? No he may have to play right tackle. Our 2 rookie o-lineman didn't see any action at all this season so i don't know how much we can count on either of those 2 guys. Stewart worked some at guard in camp but he is 6'7. How many 6'7 guards are there?

Only when we play 3-4 teams does Hartwig have to snap and block a 320 Lb NT. In 4-3 his nose is usually clean and he helps combo block a DT or has to slide to cut off the DT if the guard pulls. I'm just tired of seeing him getting shoved into the backfield and blowing up the run play. Is he the worst center in the league? No. But does he deserve a contract that is much more than the minimum? I don't think so. If Reese can get him for near the minimum then I'm fine with keeping him. I don't think that Rosenhaus will advise him to sign a low ball contract and that is why I think he hits the FA market. I think he will find that he is not a hot commodity and might come back to the Titans for less than he wants. I just don't want to see us spending any sort of money on a marginal guy who I think we have a replacement for already in Amano and who I know we could easily draft a guy better.

I expect Stewart to contribute in 2006. Why shouldn't he be able to. Bell did great his rookie yr and he was picked later in the draft. If you look at the guys who were picked around Stewart in this past draft they almost all played a bunch for their teams this yr and did well. So Stewart should be able to contribute.

Our 2 rookie o-lineman didn't see any action at all this season so i don't know how much we can count on either of those 2 guys.
I don't think Hartwig is worth investing in long-term.

This OL was full of vets. It should have been the strength of the offense last season. But we saw pressure on McNair far too often (even on short drops) and the running game (especially short yardage when OL play makes you or breaks you) suffer. The penalties were inexcusable. I'd much rather see a Roos, Piller, Amano, Stewart, Bell or the Titans bring in a vet than pay Olson, Hopkins and Hartwig.

Yes, it is unknown how the young guys will do but it's time for change.

I agree with TitanJeff. The vets on the OL proved they could not get it done. When CAP convenient dump them all and bench them in the meantime.