I'm not sure who was making this comment in the tennessean... it came across like it was Paul Kuharsky. That being said, Cutler had his pro-day outside in less than ideal conditions and was flawless. Add in he worked out at the Combine and lifted ( great mentality ) and his pro-day was conducted by Chow... who has no vested interest in him other than making sure all the questions are answered.

I got the sence from interviews and reports that Rhome protected Young with specific drills and some of the NFL personnel were less than impress with his pro-day.

- Young threw quite well, against air. A Pro Day at an indoor facility for a quarterback expected to be a top pick when there is no coverage to beat should be good, and Young’s was. (There was a wobbly deep ball down the middle and two balls that were way overthrown.) Teams will judge how to rate him with the heaviest weight on his performance as a collegian and on how he impresses them when he spends time with them one-on-one.

I would feel more confident with Cutler or Leinart ( pending pro-day ).

The problem with VY's pro day was that he didn't make any mistakes, but he didn't win over any doubters either. If you liked him before hand you will still want to draft him, if you had questions about him they're still unanswered.

I don't see how he didn't answer the questions about his throwing motion and accuracy.

His throwing motion has never been a questionmark, it was always known that it was different, but probably not a problem.

However opinion differ hugely on whether he threw deep passes, threw after the receivers had made the break, overthrew or underthrew on the incompletions (I've heard both) etc. So, to me he answered no questions. He didn't raise any either though.

The kid can do nothing right it seems, he didn't train for the 40 or expect to run one, he gets pressured into it, and runs a 4.57 and now, he's too slow. If I remember correctly he wouldn't be able to run against NFL defenses anyway right? :hmm:

Salisbury beams over him on ESPN, and then Mortensen finds an "unknown scout" to report he was not impressive. Was Mortensen even there?

Another guy comes out and says, he didn't make all the throws.

Gil Brandt says he did enough to improve his perception.

Personally I like to scrutiny... because this is the kind of environment Vince thrives in... the skeptics, are setting themselves up, to look dumb...when this kids game peaks to its full potential.

isn't running for the 40 part of Pro Day? Seems to me you would want to impress everyone and if that meant running you run. No brainer in my book.

Basically I think VY did answer sceptics that thought he would bomb out in the passing drills but didn't do enough to really make people think he is a seasoned passer. He is obviously still a little raw and there are still quesitons about being able to make every throw, on time and accurate and nobody knows how he is doing in the chalk board talks.
I agree, those who are already high on him are salivating because he didn't do poorly. Those who still have questions are not completely convinced.
On this board Cutler was slammed some because he "threw to air" and should make good passes in that kind of environment. From what I have read, Cutler got the better of VY with a better showing throwing the ball in less ideal situations where VY was inside. How much that means we shall see. IMO I hope all three QBs totally dominate in all phases of their workouts and meetings. That only means we can't miss.

isn't running for the 40 part of Pro Day? Seems to me you would want to impress everyone and if that meant running you run. No brainer in my book.

Running the 40 is not mandatory at pro-day. His camp has said, since he announced he would be entering the draft, that he wouldn't run. He showed up yesterday, and a ruckus was being made about him not running so he decided to.

His camp contends that he is being scrutinized because most says he's a runner in the quarterback position.

So if that's the case put on some film and see how fast he is.

I don't agree with the move, but that was there stance non-the-less.

Looking at the footage, Young came out of his stance way to high, and lost valuable time there. It was obvious he has not trained in running, and has been focusing on his passing.

------
The minority of people there said Vince didn't do enough... and now its Gospel truth. I have heard more reports that said he was fantastic, than those who say otherwise.

I haven't heard but did Young lift?

I think he only ran the one official 40 and did the throws.

[QUOTE=Torch7] ..... Looking at the footage, Young came out of his stance way to high, and lost valuable time there. It was obvious he has not trained in running, and has been focusing on his passing.....QUOTE]

I didn't see the tape, but if true, an excellent observation. How he took his mark (stance) is also extremely important. If he had a poor mark and came out early- he once again has been improperly prepared. The stance and how you come out of it can shave 0.08-0.12 sec easily.

I haven't heard but did Young lift?

My bad I thought I posted the video link...
He didn't so much lift as he did come out way to high (no jerking stop motion) This could be because of his height.. but his but looks way to high before he runs... he also looked very fidgety at the starting line
He did only run one forty, and then went to throw...

http://stream.ihigh.com/links/texas/2006/03/032206_fb.asx

River man, After looking at it again, it a couple of times, its not so much of him getting high too soon, I can't put my finger on it his first few steps just look a bit akward. and a few steps later, it looks like he is strugglin'; His forty is about 2:15 into the video.

His stance was not very good (butt too high, dominant foot should be behind more) and he did come out too early (before the 10yd mark rather the than 15). Also, his face and neck were too tense.

Those are coachable elements that most NFL combine athletes work on. I'm sure he did a little, but not as well prepared as he could have been. I'm betting he could have knocked off 0.1s if he had properly prepared.

I don't think a 40yd time matters that much, but his inattention to preparation isn't persuasive.

Unless Leinart blows me away at his day- I still likes me some Vince.

More NFL scouts opinions refernce his 45 of 50 passes.

- ''That wasn't a remarkable achievement because he wasn't asked to make many tough throws and he waited a lot on his receivers to get out of their breaks,'' one scout told ESPN.Com. ''Teams that are curious about the guy are going to want to see more when they work him out.''

More NFL scouts opinions refernce his 45 of 50 passes.

- ''That wasn't a remarkable achievement because he wasn't asked to make many tough throws and he waited a lot on his receivers to get out of their breaks,'' one scout told ESPN.Com. ''Teams that are curious about the guy are going to want to see more when they work him out.''

That infamous... "one scout" ESPN keeps quoting... is a thorn in VY's side.:irked:

His stance was not very good (butt too high, dominant foot should be behind more) and he did come out too early (before the 10yd mark rather the than 15). Also, his face and neck were too tense.

Those are coachable elements that most NFL combine athletes work on. I'm sure he did a little, but not as well prepared as he could have been. I'm betting he could have knocked off 0.1s if he had properly prepared.

I don't think a 40yd time matters that much, but his inattention to preparation isn't persuasive.

Unless Leinart blows me away at his day- I still likes me some Vince.

Thanks for breaking that down for me Riverman... I have 3 track meets worth of High School experience, and it didn't look like what my Track Coach/Football Coach /Health Teacher taught me.. before my injury..:lol: But I didn't know if he knew what he was talking about half the time...LOL!

By "lift", I meant the 225 lbs.

;)

The media is all over the place with Vince. I'm beginning to the think the negatives are just smoke. It is amazing how inconsistent (at least the tone) the reports are.

A reference in the other thread about Titans taking Vince has some insanely positive comments and even suggests the Texans could take him 1st. (I'm still suspicious about the Texans trading with the Packers with the Texans picking up Vince if he's still on the board.)

By "lift", I meant the 225 lbs.

;)

Oh my bad... I don't think he lifted....

The media is all over the place with Vince. I'm beginning to the think the negatives are just smoke. It is amazing how inconsistent (at least the tone) the reports are.

A reference in the other thread about Titans taking Vince has some insanely positive comments and even suggests the Texans could take him 1st. (I'm still suspicious about the Texans trading with the Packers with the Texans picking up Vince if he's still on the board.)

My thoughts exactly Riverman... ESPN reporters on the scene say they were blown away, and then the studio guy quotes a scout saying, he sucked.. in the same segment... huh? link below:
http://media.putfile.com/TexasProDay-ESPN

The reports are just too conflicting... I would rather everyone say he did okay... then to have polar opposites circulating.

Thanks for breaking that down for me Riverman... I have 3 track meets worth of High School experience, and it didn't look like what my Track Coach/Football Coach /Health Teacher taught me.. before my injury..:lol: But I didn't know if he knew what he was talking about half the time...LOL!

Anytime. As a 6' 01", 120 pound senior, running was the only thing I did better than the rest of the team. :ha:

Anytime. As a 6' 01", 120 pound senior, running was the only thing I did better than the rest of the team. :ha:

120 wow, must have been a linebacker...

120 wow, must have been a linebacker...

Went from Wide-out to Left-Out. :brow:

I saw more stars that year than a Japanese tourist on Highway One. :stars:

After the 3rd time the ball crossed the goal line before I did, the coach said I'd catch as many balls running track as I would playing for him.:yell2:

Went from Wide-out to Left-Out. :brow:

I saw more stars that year than a Japanese tourist on Highway One. :stars:

After the 3rd time the ball crossed the goal line before I did, the coach said I'd catch as many balls running track as I would playing for him.:yell2:
That's hilarious. :lol:

Running the 40 is not mandatory at pro-day.
--------------------------------

It is mandatory for a player who will be drafted high in large part because of his superior athleticism. Why would vince not be prepared to run? Did he expect to not run at all before the draft? This is a guy who is supposed to be one of the great athletes ever to come out at that position but he had no desire to run and still has not done any lifting, jumping or any other activity.

Hey he doesn't have to participate in any of these drills, the reason he does participate is to get drafted higher.. If he was not properly prepared to run that's his problem.

Running the 40 is not mandatory at pro-day.
--------------------------------

It is mandatory for a player who will be drafted high in large part because of his superior athleticism. Why would vince not be prepared to run? Did he expect to not run at all before the draft? This is a guy who is supposed to be one of the great athletes ever to come out at that position but he had no desire to run and still has not done any lifting, jumping or any other activity.

Hey he doesn't have to participate in any of these drills, the reason he does participate is to get drafted higher.. If he was not properly prepared to run that's his problem.

Why is everything about Vince so personal... I could care less what he runs in the forty. As I said in my post, "I don't agree with the stance" but its his choice to make.

I still contend anyone who has seen him on film or in person, knows he is faster than the 4.57 indicates.

Again, him not running was more of a reference to the ESPN article that chastised him for sitting on his laurels.

He wants to be the best, but he doesn't practice to run, he says he is motivated to shhhh the naysayers, but he still doesn't blow anyone away except for some homers.

Honestly, he doesn't have a sprinter's build. He has really long legs and a long stride- he's not that well suited physically to run a 40yd dash. His technique was average at best, I'm certain he could have shaved time off with an improved stance and keeping low longer.

I suspect he didn't want to run because he knew he wouldn't "fly" and didn't want to distract attention from the major press criticism of his throwing. When he heard the grumbling, he cooperated. That is good attitude. He ran one time only.

I'm not at all concerned with his time. The kid can run fast, make good cuts and lane decisions on the field. There is no "pro-day" or combine drill to test "vision"- apparently one of his best attributes.

I am a Young fan because I sense an "unstoppable" potential in him that I don't in the other two (maybe Cutler has it). When you have a QB that can throw well and then "tuck and run" as a check-down option, as well as it appears Young can, defenses are very hard pressed to make a stop. It also gives the offense a great "ball control" option.

Again, him not running was more of a reference to the ESPN article that chastised him for sitting on his laurels.

He wants to be the best, but he doesn't practice to run, he says he is motivated to shhhh the naysayers, but he still doesn't blow anyone away except for some homers.

Lots of people who have seen Young, especially up close are impressed with him. I haven't seen much of Cutler, so you don't see me commenting on him, I have seen Matt Leinhart a few times and you don't see me doing much commenting on him, except in comparison type posts.... To say that we are homers because we see something special in this kid, is just as bad, as callin' him a bust and he hasn't had the opportunity to acheive on the next level.

Certainly there was no-one who acheived as much this year on the collegiate level.

My loyalty to the Longhorns, has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion of Vince, I formed it before he signed his letter of intent, and he hasn't failed to meet expectations on every level.

Vince is not a guaranteed success, but if you measure him by the same measuring stick with the others, you have to admit they are all in the same league, one may be obviously better than another in a certain aspect of the game,you may think one is better, but when taken as total packages, they all bring something to the table, they are still in the same league thus far. Why we tend to put them on polar opposites to compare them, and make our opinion stand out, I don't know.

If the Titans feel VY is anything close to Cutler and Leinart in his ability to read defenses and deliver the ball he should be the top QB because of his running ability. His running ability is not a question and I'm sure at his private workout the Titans spent 0 time concerned with that phase of his game except to see how he could roll or sprint out and make throws.

Personal? What the hell are you talking about? The guy is supposed to be the best damn athlete to come out at QB since vick and he didn't want to run a 40!

Of course you don't care what he runs because you don't make a million dollars a year to make these decisions. You won't get fired because you drafted the wrong guy. Common sense would tell you that nfl teams that spent a lot of money to see this man workout might want to see him run before they use a 3rd pick on him. Daaaaa.

You actually used his being unprepared as an excuse. Is that what the titans want with their third pick? A guy who is not prepared for the most basic obvious drills?

Are you telling me that it would be normal for a top prospect to not run for anyone before the draft? A QB prospect no less who's strength as a player is supposed to be his athleticism?

Running the 40 is not mandatory at pro-day.
--------------------------------

It is mandatory for a player who will be drafted high in large part because of his superior athleticism. Why would Vince not be prepared to run? Did he expect to not run at all before the draft? This is a guy who is supposed to be one of the great athletes ever to come out at that position but he had no desire to run and still has not done any lifting, jumping or any other activity.

Hey he doesn't have to participate in any of these drills, the reason he does participate is to get drafted higher.. If he was not properly prepared to run that's his problem.

For one thing... please, anyone who questions Vince's running abilities is a complete and utter fool. His running prowess has as much to do with his size, his acceleration/deceleration, and is freaky Matrix-time warp elusiveness than it does to pure speed (as measured in a timed 40). Like a good bull fighter, he has a god given knack for making people miss, sometimes by centimeters; and when they do manage to land a hand on him, he has the size to brush it off.

I would hope that pro scouts would have enough sense to realize this.

Will Reggie run the 40 for his pro day? Will Matt? Don't they both have something to prove, Reggie being called the fastest man to play the game and Matt's only real knock is his perceived lack of elusiveness (which he denies)? Shouldn't they have to justify their lofty predraft positions?

As far as why Vince ran, the reports I've seen chalk it up to competitiveness. Vince saw his teammates warming up and running, they started egging him on, likely some scouts started egging him on, and with the gauntlet thrown down, he has to take up the challenge. I doubt it had anything to do with his "management" aside from the fact that they couldn't stop him.
And contrary to what's being speculated here, reports from workouts after the RoseBowl (but before he had hired Rhome) said that Vince had been working on running the 40, quoting him as saying he was stuck around the 4.4 level and he was trying to break into the 4.3's. Obviously he didn't make that and I bet he was pretty disappointed that his time wasn't better.

But knocking a 6-5 230+ QB for running a mid 4.5 is like knocking Cindy Crawford for having a mole. Knocking him for not doing the vertical jump or broad jump is just as absurd. If I'm choosing sides for a pickup Basketball game and have to choose between Young, Leinart, Bush or Cutler, there's little doubt who I'm gonna pick. :winker:

I remember watching the Rose Bowl and Texas was on offense. One of the USC linebacker's blitzed and hit Young. Young didn't even move!! He held his ground as if it was a fly that just landed on him. He stood strong and completed a pass with a USC linebacker on him.

Young's overall physical strength is amazing. He may not be the fastest scrambling QB ever (I'm sure his 40 time could have been better though), but he has ridiculous vision on the field which allows him to gain so many yards and choose the right path to the endzone. He can make people miss andOne style.

His accuracy is fine. He didn't have the highest completion percentage for nothing. His ability to run, run and throw, throw, make people miss, stay in the pocket take a hit and still make a completion all combine to make him worthy of our #3 pick. If he is on the board, which he will be, when the Titans are on the clock and we don't take him, we will be making a huge mistake.

Pickup B-ball game? Cutler was all state in HS and Leinart apparently can shoot well. What does that have to do with anything?

Obviously VY doesn't have to prove anything as far as running ability. A point could be made however that if he prepared and was able to run a sub-4.5 his stock could have been improved. Prior to the combine VY didn't have a whole lot to gain by working out but he has slipped a little and putting on an athletic show wouldn't have hurt him. Now we have all the talk about how slow he was compared to what was expected. In short, VY could have done a better job of selling his talent if he had prepared and performed well.

So if VY doesn't have to prove he can run, is it ok for Leinart to not throw accurately come his pro day? I mean if you look at his games you can clearly see he's accurate, so he doesn't need to throw, except for just chucking it deep to show armstrength... :sad2:

So if VY doesn't have to prove he can run, is it ok for Leinart to not throw accurately come his pro day? I mean if you look at his games you can clearly see he's accurate, so he doesn't need to throw, except for just chucking it deep to show armstrength... :sad2:

Huge difference... They are QB's they throw the ball... 40 times don't have as much bearing on QB's, as it does say Running Backs or recievers.

Why are people disappointed with his 40 time? Because looking at film, they would sware he is alot faster? If Matt went out and ran a 4.95, people wouldn't trip on that at all.

The concern, for me anyways, isn't that he didn't run fast. That's not a big deal in my book and would just be an added bonus. The problem was he didn't realise it was expected of him, which is bad planning/counceling.