"Barry Bonds, already under investigation for lying under oath about his steroid use, failed a test under Major League Baseball's amphetamine policy last season and then initially blamed it on a teammate, the New York Daily News has learned."
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/baseball/16433646.htm

I wonder if he could have thrown a teammate under the bus any quicker?

Looks bad. But really says nothing about his steroid use. In fact, it helps his case, because he was tested 6 additional times and was clean. The voters for HOF will not likely care about the amps.

I think he's got a good chance to be elected into the Hall. McGwire and Sosa are under even heavier suspicion for their lack of honesty, and ironically. Bonds testimoney may actually work in his favor. It is going to be close I think.

I don't think Sosa, Palmeiro, or McGwire will get in. Their image was obliterated by congress. Which is interesting in itself, since most of it is speculation. Schilling seems safe.

There is of course, the testing results, which may still leak about all mlb'ers, and that is gonna be an even more interesting ride. I hope it comes out, just so the truth is out there. It will devastate baseball, but the questions will be put to rest, and the HOF can go about their business. Any mlb player using should have been more responsible anyway. They were breaking the law, and a code of ethics, and they did not volunteer for the test, they were told to take it, so i don't buy into the idea that they were trying to help mlb solve the problem. They thought they had a free pass. But life doesn't work that way. The Truth doesn't not automatically grant you immunity, it grants you a chance at redemption.

Looks bad. But really says nothing about his steroid use. In fact, it helps his case, because he was tested 6 additional times and was clean. The voters for HOF will not likely care about the amps.

I think he's got a good chance to be elected into the Hall. McGwire and Sosa are under even heavier suspicion for their lack of honesty, and ironically. Bonds testimoney may actually work in his favor. It is going to be close I think.

I don't think Sosa, Palmeiro, or McGwire will get in. Their image was obliterated by congress. Which is interesting in itself, since most of it is speculation. Schilling seems safe.

There is of course, the testing results, which may still leak about all mlb'ers, and that is gonna be an even more interesting ride. I hope it comes out, just so the truth is out there. It will devastate baseball, but the questions will be put to rest, and the HOF can go about their business. Any mlb player using should have been more responsible anyway. They were breaking the law, and a code of ethics, and they did not volunteer for the test, they were told to take it, so i don't buy into the idea that they were trying to help mlb solve the problem. They thought they had a free pass. But life doesn't work that way. The Truth doesn't not automatically grant you immunity, it grants you a chance at redemption.


McGwire and Sosa never tested positive though. Not to mention that Bonds trainer is in prison right now because of steroids. I cant see how Bonds get in on his first ballot, based on how the voters treated McGwire.

Take into consideration that before all of Bonds' alleged steroid use, he was already a hall-of-fame caliber player. McGwire was never a guy who did anything other than hit homeruns. McGwire's career batting average is only .263, which is awful for someone that is supposed to be in the hall of fame. Also, 36% of his career hits were homeruns. All he was was a power hitter, nothing else. Bonds, on the other hand, has had eleven seasons where he has hit .300 or more, good enough for a career average of right at .300. At this stage of his career, Bonds has about 1200 more hits than McGwire had in his entire career. Besides his one year where he went off for 73 home runs (steroids or not, we can only speculate), Bonds' home run totals have been pretty consistent over his career. He's been a consistent late 30's to mid 40's home run guy, take out his record breaking year. I'll admit though, I read Game of Shadows, and the evidence that those two writers were able to pile up against Bonds is hard to ignore. However, I am not going to hold what he did before steroids testing against him, because most of the owners and officials of Major League Baseball knew what was going on and turned a blind eye towards it. So until he actually fails a test for steroids and not just amphetamines, I won't be convinced that he is cheating right now.

I wonder if he could have thrown a teammate under the bus any quicker?

Ask Peyton :ha:

Take into consideration that before all of Bonds' alleged steroid use, he was already a hall-of-fame caliber player. McGwire was never a guy who did anything other than hit homeruns. McGwire's career batting average is only .263, which is awful for someone that is supposed to be in the hall of fame. Also, 36% of his career hits were homeruns. All he was was a power hitter, nothing else. Bonds, on the other hand, has had eleven seasons where he has hit .300 or more, good enough for a career average of right at .300. At this stage of his career, Bonds has about 1200 more hits than McGwire had in his entire career. Besides his one year where he went off for 73 home runs (steroids or not, we can only speculate), Bonds' home run totals have been pretty consistent over his career. He's been a consistent late 30's to mid 40's home run guy, take out his record breaking year. I'll admit though, I read Game of Shadows, and the evidence that those two writers were able to pile up against Bonds is hard to ignore. However, I am not going to hold what he did before steroids testing against him, because most of the owners and officials of Major League Baseball knew what was going on and turned a blind eye towards it. So until he actually fails a test for steroids and not just amphetamines, I won't be convinced that he is cheating right now.


I think most of what you said is irrelevant. McGwire has Hall of fame #S, there is no argument about that. The reason he was kept out is because of the steroid cloud hanging over him. I cant possibly see how you can keep one guy out because of steroids, even though he never tested positive, while putting another guy who has loads of circumstancial evidence and questions surrounding him on the exact same topic. I think McGwire used steroids just as much as the next guy. But I dont think you can punish one guy who you "think" did something, while not punishing another guy who provides probably even more evidence that he did the same thing.

Both men have the numbers, there's no doubt about it. McGwire is being held out because he kept quiet under oath... if he didn't have anything to hide, then why didn't he talk? I think this is more of a Major League Baseball problem. The entire time they knew exactly what was happening but chose to put their heads in the sand and ignore it. In my opinion, all of the superstars (Bonds, Sosa, McGwire) from the Steroids era belong to be in the Hall of Fame. However, put some kind of statement on their plaque that says something like "In 2004, Mark McGwire was one of ten Major League Baseball players to appear before Congress to discuss performance-enhancing drug use. His refusal to speak on the matter has shed doubt upon the records that he holds."

Both men have the numbers, there's no doubt about it. McGwire is being held out because he kept quiet under oath... if he didn't have anything to hide, then why didn't he talk? I think this is more of a Major League Baseball problem. The entire time they knew exactly what was happening but chose to put their heads in the sand and ignore it. In my opinion, all of the superstars (Bonds, Sosa, McGwire) from the Steroids era belong to be in the Hall of Fame. However, put some kind of statement on their plaque that says something like "In 2004, Mark McGwire was one of ten Major League Baseball players to appear before Congress to discuss performance-enhancing drug use. His refusal to speak on the matter has shed doubt upon the records that he holds."


I dont really know how you handle the steroid era and the hall of fame. On one hand I dont think they should be rewarded for cheating. But on the other hand, they were dominant players in a league where far more than just those 3 used steroids. But I do think since they kept McGwire out of the hall of fame, they have to keep Sosa and Bonds out too. On the first ballot anyway.

Exactly. I think Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire are basically the martyrs of the Steroid Era. However, it's been well documented that steroid use was pretty much rampant during that era. If you read Game of Shadows, it's stated that Bonds started to use steroids just to keep up with everyone else. Also, there was a report last week that said that in 1998 not only were the players juiced, but the balls were as well. So if that was the case, then Major League Baseball is just as much at fault as the players. The Hall of Fame is supposed to reward people for their accomplishments between the lines, and Sosa, Bonds, and McGwire were the dominant players of that particular era. I don't see how you leave those people out.

MLB turned away from something that was obvious because McGuire and Sosa saved the game.

bonds is my favorite player because he's bad for baseball. i hate baseball, therefore, i love anything bad for it :)

Exactly. I think Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire are basically the martyrs of the Steroid Era. However, it's been well documented that steroid use was pretty much rampant during that era. If you read Game of Shadows, it's stated that Bonds started to use steroids just to keep up with everyone else. Also, there was a report last week that said that in 1998 not only were the players juiced, but the balls were as well. So if that was the case, then Major League Baseball is just as much at fault as the players. The Hall of Fame is supposed to reward people for their accomplishments between the lines, and Sosa, Bonds, and McGwire were the dominant players of that particular era. I don't see how you leave those people out.


Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson were dominate during their time, and neither are in the HoF because they cheated the game in one way or another. I could argue that Sosa and Bonds cheated the game also, McGuire has a "doctors" excuse for his steroid use, well at least some of it. Point is all 5 of them cheated in some form or fashion and as long as PR and SJJ are out then Bonds, Sosa and McGuire should be out also.

McGwire and Sosa never tested positive though. Not to mention that Bonds trainer is in prison right now because of steroids. I cant see how Bonds get in on his first ballot, based on how the voters treated McGwire.

That is not accurate. Bonds trainer was being a really good friend to Bonds and refused to sell him out. Not once but twice. He was asked to testify against Bonds. He refused, pleaded the 5th, was held in contempt and sent to prison. The grand jury after an exhausting search did not find enough evidence against bonds and the statute of limitations ran out. He was released but two weeks later the grand jury was at it again, he refused again to testify and back to prison he went. Him and Bonds have been friends since they were kids.

Do you have a friend that would take that bullet for you? I am not sure I do.

Side note: I use to work out at the gym McGuire worked out at during his time with the A's. Dude put up tons of weight. Maxed out every machine usually putting extra 45 lbs pinned onto the machine. His trainer was this HUGE black dude that always had this purple man-atard on.

Him and Mike Bordick (2nd baseman for the A's at the time) were joking about Conseco one time. I can not exactly remember what they were joking about (I was a couple bikes down) but something about Conseco and the time on the Rangers when he had the bicep surgery and I just remember McGwire doing the same pose to show off his guns. Was pretty funny at the time.

Not sure where i was going with that this thread just brings up the memory.

Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson were dominate during their time, and neither are in the HoF because they cheated the game in one way or another. I could argue that Sosa and Bonds cheated the game also, McGuire has a "doctors" excuse for his steroid use, well at least some of it. Point is all 5 of them cheated in some form or fashion and as long as PR and SJJ are out then Bonds, Sosa and McGuire should be out also.

The difference there is that what Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire did was not illegal at the time.

not strickly defined I agree.

I bet there is something about the integrity of the game in their contracts though. I know the commissioner can void any deal he wants for "the good of the game". I bet player contracts have some type of broadly worded clause that gaining an unfair advantage would fall under corrupting the integrity of the game.

That is not accurate. Bonds trainer was being a really good friend to Bonds and refused to sell him out. Not once but twice. He was asked to testify against Bonds. He refused, pleaded the 5th, was held in contempt and sent to prison. The grand jury after an exhausting search did not find enough evidence against bonds and the statute of limitations ran out. He was released but two weeks later the grand jury was at it again, he refused again to testify and back to prison he went. Him and Bonds have been friends since they were kids.

Do you have a friend that would take that bullet for you? I am not sure I do.

If you have nothing to hide why wouldnt you testify? When asked under oath if you gave Bonds anabolic steroids, why wouldnt you just say no, if indeed you hadnt. His loyalty to Bonds isnt the issue. The issue, is that this situation is really no different than McGwire refusing to testify at congress. I seriously doubt he decided to not testify and go to prison for the hell of it. He did it so he wouldnt have to committ perjury and to protect Bonds. I dont really disagree with not letting McGwire in on the first ballot, but I think Bonds, Sosa, and the whole group has to be treated the same way.

The difference there is that what Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire did was not illegal at the time.

Thats not exactly true. Many drugs have been illegal, they just never tested for it, so unless you just admitted to it or did it out in the open you werent going to get caught.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2735234

It's about time the owners are forced to man up and quit hiding

If you have nothing to hide why wouldnt you testify? When asked under oath if you gave Bonds anabolic steroids, why wouldnt you just say no, if indeed you hadnt. His loyalty to Bonds isnt the issue. The issue, is that this situation is really no different than McGwire refusing to testify at congress. I seriously doubt he decided to not testify and go to prison for the hell of it. He did it so he wouldnt have to committ perjury and to protect Bonds. I dont really disagree with not letting McGwire in on the first ballot, but I think Bonds, Sosa, and the whole group has to be treated the same way.

With that logic we should convict anyone who pleads the 5th. :rolleyes:

Innocent before proven guilty last I checked. You ASSUME he is guilty because he will not testify. And I am pretty sure that if he was put on the stands it would not end up being as cut and dry as:

Did you give him steroids?

No.

No further questions.

Most likely the guys credibility would be called into question. Him and his entire family would be scrutinized and it would end up being, even if he said no, spun that he is a long time friend and trainer of Bonds and stands to lose financially if he says he did give him the steroids. A lose lose situation.

You mention he is afraid of perjuring himself but don't you think that Bonds would have a team of lawyers in there to defend him and coach him on what to say and what not to say? All on Bond's money. They guy is supposedly one of Bond's best friends and money would not really be an object.

With that logic we should convict anyone who pleads the 5th. :rolleyes:

Innocent before proven guilty last I checked. You ASSUME he is guilty because he will not testify. And I am pretty sure that if he was put on the stands it would not end up being as cut and dry as:

Did you give him steroids?

No.

No further questions.

Most likely the guys credibility would be called into question. Him and his entire family would be scrutinized and it would end up being, even if he said no, spun that he is a long time friend and trainer of Bonds and stands to lose financially if he says he did give him the steroids. A lose lose situation.

You mention he is afraid of perjuring himself but don't you think that Bonds would have a team of lawyers in there to defend him and coach him on what to say and what not to say? All on Bond's money. They guy is supposedly one of Bond's best friends and money would not really be an object.

He didnt plead the 5th, he flat out didnt testify. And please explain to me why a guy would choose to go to jail, if he had nothing to hide? If he is innocent, why not testify and say your innocent. I dont understand your logic a bit. You are telling me that having your credibility called into question is worse than going to jail, and also having your credibility called into question?

He didnt plead the 5th, he flat out didnt testify. And please explain to me why a guy would choose to go to jail, if he had nothing to hide? If he is innocent, why not testify and say your innocent. I dont understand your logic a bit. You are telling me that having your credibility called into question is worse than going to jail, and also having your credibility called into question?

He is barely a blip right now. He goes to the stand he becomes the center of a media circus. Allot of people do not want that type of pressure. It is not like this guy went to a maximum security prison either, he refused to testify. Minimum security. Yes he loses some freedoms but you know Bonds on the backend is waving a giant bag of money to keep his mouth shut. Everything this guy is at this point in his life is most likely in some way related to Bonds and their long time friendship.

The guy in the past has said he did not give Bonds steroids. Like they are going to break him on the stand? More likely he goes up and says that people again just assume he is lying and he get 50 JAs camped outside his house for the next three years going through his trash.

:hmm: .... Prison or loss of all privacy and yourself for as long as you are the story of the day.

He is barely a blip right now. He goes to the stand he becomes the center of a media circus. Allot of people do not want that type of pressure. It is not like this guy went to a maximum security prison either, he refused to testify. Minimum security. Yes he loses some freedoms but you know Bonds on the backend is waving a giant bag of money to keep his mouth shut. Everything this guy is at this point in his life is most likely in some way related to Bonds and their long time friendship.

The guy in the past has said he did not give Bonds steroids. Like they are going to break him on the stand? More likely he goes up and says that people again just assume he is lying and he get 50 JA camped outside his house for the next three years going through his trash.

:hmm: .... Prison or loss of all privacy and yourself for as long as you are the story of the day.


This isnt going to go away. At some point, he is going to become the center of attention, especially when Bonds breaks the record. Because the record isnt going to be celebrated as a great achievement, it is going to have a dark steroid cloud hanging over it. And I think the way the trainer is going about this actually brings more suspicion, and makes him even more significant in this whole story in the long run.