i say yes

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070326&sportCat=nba

Kobe is the greatest scorer of all time among other things. I mean, just watch the guy get double teamed and still drop 8 out of 12 3 point attempts. He's just insane, I've never seen anyone who can score form anywhere on the court like him.

I think he has a chance. He's accomplished more the Jordan ever did at this stage. But he's got to get six titles to even the playing field. Still plenty of time to do that. But Jordan for now.

"Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing will be among the best centers ever, but none of them affected the league the way Shaq and Tim Duncan have."

I take offense to that. Olajuwon destroyed all five of them. And redefined the position. No one before, or since, has won mvp, defensive player of year, and finals mvp in one season. He averaged 40 on Robinson, Averaged 35 on shaq, and held Ewing to 38% shooting in the Finals. Shaq has had a nice career, but Olajuwon destroyed him in the finals, so he has a head up on him in my book. Hakeem was the more complete player. But I will give shaq some props. Drob and Ewing, and Duncan are not even close. Duncan being in the middle.

Also, Jordan did face freak talent during his run.

Stockton and Malone
Barkley and KJ
Drexler
Payton and Kemp
Magic and Worthy

He earned his titles. No doubt. He was aging against Utah, but damn, he was old and still found a way to win. His only real failure was against Shaq and Penny.

no.

care to elaborate, or is it because you're a bulls fan?

I will when you do.

right now he has a team that should have a lottery pick in the playoffs. i think the article makes my case for me anyhow, all i would be doing is repeating it.

So does Dwight Howard.
Most teams without their best players would be a lottery team, excluding Dallas, Chicago (no real best player), Detroit, Miami, Phoenix and San Antonio.

Jordan played in an era with better players, better defenders and not as offensive minded as it is today.

Career stats are not close.

MVPs are not close.

Championships are not close.

So does Dwight Howard.
in the east and i would say dwight howard is probably the second or third best big man in the game


Career stats are not close.

are going from per game averages? if so, those are skewed because bryant wasnt a starter until his third year


Championships are not close.

he's till young and half way there

in the east and i would say dwight howard is probably the second or third best big man in the game

It's more of a comment on how bad the bottom 10 teams are in both the East and West.


are going from per game averages? if so, those are skewed because bryant wasnt a starter until his third year

But he benefits from a more offensive minded NBA and a terrible defensive league.


he's till young and half way there

and won't do it without help.

I don't think he is there yet. However, out of anyone in the league right now, he is the closest by far. Sorry Lebron, get a consistent jump shot and you may be in this discussion. But for him to get three more rings, he is going to have to get a legit second and third option. Jordan had it, and Mitch Kupchak is going to have to get it for Kobe.

When you look back at single player star led teams. There are not too many that made the finals.

In 25 years I counted the following. About 12 teams out of a possible 52
Ewing (Starks) - Lost
Isiah (Dumars) - Won - Won
Olajuwon (Otis Thorpe) Won
Drexler (Porter) Lost - Lost
Miller (Smits) Lost
Duncan (Ginobli) Won - Won
Iverson (?) Lost
Billups (Wallace) Won
Nowitzski (Terry) Lost

Kobe is a great player, LeBron is a great player, but they have not redefined basketball.
MJ changed the game.

Game 7 NBA championship, series tied 3-3, 3 seconds left. You are the coach. Who do you want to shoot the ball.
Kobe.
LeBron.
AI.
Jordan.

Jordan by far

Need I say more
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He's accomplished more the Jordan ever did at this stage.

If you are referring to the three championships, then you are not being entirely honest. Kobe might have been a key for those three rings, but he certainly wasn't a bigger key than Shaq was. When you have the most dominant player at his position playing by your side, your chances to be successful are pretty high... wouldn't you say? The fact that Kobe hasn't won anything after Shaq's departure proves it.

But the whole idea of comparing Jordan to Kobe is pretty dumb, IMO. Jordan played in an era that saw great teams, great players and a great level of basketball. And yet the Bulls were able to win it all many times.

I watch the NBA of today and it's really hard to believe the poor level it has been reduced to... and I'm actually being nice with those comments.

So does Dwight Howard.
Most teams without their best players would be a lottery team, excluding Dallas, Chicago (no real best player), Detroit, Miami, Phoenix and San Antonio.

Jordan played in an era with better players, better defenders and not as offensive minded as it is today.

Career stats are not close.

MVPs are not close.

Championships are not close.

Thank you........Jordan is the best player of all time, he made the players around him better. Kobe looks to shoot 50 times a game.

Jordan is the best player of all time, he made the players around him better. Kobe looks to shoot 50 times a game.
oh yeah?

"When judging Kobe as a ball-hog who doesn’t make his team better, remember that Jordan averaged 27.8 shots per game the year he averaged his peak 37.1 points per game. Kobe has yet to reach that shot average. Yet he is averaging 48 points, more than nine rebounds and five assists per game in the Lakers’ latest three-game win streak. In the two games without him, the Lakers fell to Utah twice. His four consecutive games with at least 45 points surpassed Jordan and was a first since Wilt Chamberlain in 1964."
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/1/11/hateHimOrLoveHimButEitherWayKobesOnTop

and wilt chamberlain was the best player of all-time, jordan was the most marketed because of the era.

If you are referring to the three championships, then you are not being entirely honest. Kobe might have been a key for those three rings, but he certainly wasn't a bigger key than Shaq was. When you have the most dominant player at his position playing by your side, your chances to be successful are pretty high... wouldn't you say? The fact that Kobe hasn't won anything after Shaq's departure proves it.


The counter to that is Jordan won nothing until Pippen came on board. Pippen was the most dominant defender and small forward in the league, and enhanced Michael's chances of winning all six titles. But without 'em, Michael achieved nothing. On the Wizards, it was reiterated. I don't think Shaq being there takes away from his championships at all. We all have seen how Kobe helps the Lakers win. His influence on the three championships is easily documented.

As far as early career, Kobe is ahead of the curve on the winning front. .

The counter to that is Jordan won nothing until Pippen came on board. Pippen was the most dominant defender and small forward in the league, and enhanced Michael's chances of winning all six titles. But without 'em, Michael achieved nothing. On the Wizards, it was reiterated. I don't think Shaq being there takes away from his championships at all. We all have seen how Kobe helps the Lakers win. His influence on the three championships is easily documented.

As far as early career, Kobe is ahead of the curve on the winning front.

It depends. Pippen was 2nd fiddle to Jordan.

Was Kobe 2nd fiddle to Shaq?

What is more of an advantage, a dominate Center or a dominate Forward?

And Jordan was 40 with the wizards. I don't think a championship was ever a realistic possibility.

And Jordan was 40 with the wizards. I don't think a championship was ever a realistic possibility.

It was sad watching him with the Wizards. You could tell that he wanted to take over games, but his body just wouldn't allow it. But to almost take that team to the playoffs two straight years was a great accomplishment in its own right. Even if he did trade Rip Hamilton.

The counter to that is Jordan won nothing until Pippen came on board. Pippen was the most dominant defender and small forward in the league, and enhanced Michael's chances of winning all six titles. But without 'em, Michael achieved nothing.

Pippen had already played 3 or 4 seasons with the Bulls before they won their first title. So arguing that Pippen saved the day as soon as he came in is a big overstatement.

Furthermore, Pippen (and everyone else on the team for that matter) didn't really get involved until after getting beat up a few times by the Pistons in the playoffs. It was then when Jordan realized that he actually needed to pass the ball when he was getting double/triple coverage, which was something he rarely did until that point. After that, the Bulls swept by the Pistons in their next playoff meeting and the rest is history.

That's not to say that Pippen wasn't a good player or that he didn't do anything for the Bulls. He was a great compliment to Jordan, whereas Shaq didn't serve as a compliment to Kobe. In fact, you could very well argue that it was the other way around.

On the Wizards, it was reiterated.

What was? That players past their prime can't win championships?

I don't think Shaq being there takes away from his championships at all. We all have seen how Kobe helps the Lakers win. His influence on the three championships is easily documented.

Of course Kobe had an influence. My point, though, is that the Lakers wouldn't have won those championships without Shaq. Not even close.

So does Dwight Howard.
Most teams without their best players would be a lottery team, excluding Dallas, Chicago (no real best player), Detroit, Miami, Phoenix and San Antonio.

Jordan played in an era with better players, better defenders and not as offensive minded as it is today.

Career stats are not close.

MVPs are not close.

Championships are not close.

the wizards are demonstrating that now.

kobe is no where near Jordan right now, although he is probably the closest out of all the nba players now, millions of miles away tho.

http://savejoe.net/id7.html

Here is a pretty good read on MJ being better than Kobe.

Jordan....no comparsion.

Magic and Bird both are better than Kobe.

Basketball is more than scoring points.

my top 10 players of all time

1. Michael Jordan CHI-WAS
2. Julius Erving PHI
3. Wilt Chamberlain GS
4. Kareem Abdul Jabaar LA
5. Bill Russel BOS
6. Larry Bird BOS
7. Kobe Bryant LA
8. Bob Cousy BOS
9. John Havlicek BOS
10. Karl Malone UTAH

Shawn Bradley must be #11 then.

haha good shawn bradley, always loved that guy, even tho he was like the easiest center to dunk on, tho he was 7'6 or 7'7 or something, lol shawn bradley. reminds me of Kerry Collins.

my top 10 players of all time

1. Michael Jordan CHI-WAS
2. Julius Erving PHI
3. Wilt Chamberlain GS
4. Kareem Abdul Jabaar LA
5. Bill Russel BOS
6. Larry Bird BOS
7. Kobe Bryant LA
8. Bob Cousy BOS
9. John Havlicek BOS
10. Karl Malone UTAH
Did that really need to be included?

he was in his prime at washington :)

I'm not going to argue with anyones top 10. Cause it is what it is. But Olajuwon, if nothing else, is better than Karl MAlone. I know that much. Offensively and Defensively. Jordan picked Dream as his all time center and that says it all to me.

My own top 10 would go like this.

1. Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Magic Johnson
4. Larry Bird
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Julius Erving
7. Bill Russell
8. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Shaquille Oneal

where is julius erving? he has to be in the top 10 because he is a major reason the nba and aba linked...hands down he is better then shaq and kobe.

You goofball, I have him at 6. He's probably even better than that, but nobody ever saw him. I've got your back on Dr. J.

o i see him now, i have horrible vision sorry :)