Leonard Williams USC

Well yeah


Buuuut... Id rather not waste #2 on a bust QB lol

 

The questions are...how good is Mett with a GOOD team and good protection vs Winston AND is that difference (if there even is one in Winston's favor) worth a Suh at DE or perhaps the equivalent of Shane Ray, Trae Waynes and Danny Shelton (for argument's sake)? Based on Winston's last season, I don't think he's a surefire QB in this league. I believe he's a great competitor but his immaturity sacres me and every GM who wants/needs a QB. He has great upside but this past season makes his ceiling more iffy.

So the real question is, IF Winston is there and the Jets offer us the #6 pick this year, the #34 pick this year and their First rnd pick next year...do you take Winston? Put another way...is Winston worth giving up 3 players (basically 3 first rnd picks since their 2nd is so high)...for arguments sake say Shane Ray (OLB), Danny Shelton (NT) and Trae Waynes (CB)? Before anyone freaks out, this is just an example of the quality of players we could get instead of taking Winston...and that's only fair market price. I have a feeling a lot of teams will not be interested in moving up for Mariota but WOULD be for Winston. We could get more than fair value without asking for double (ala Rams/Washington).

The 2 bonuses of trading back are we still get a great player at 6, get another very high quality draft pick at the top of round 2 and gives us the flexibility of either taking another first rnd pick next year to support the team (non-QB if Mett works out) or the flexibility to trade up to get whatever QB or other player we want. If Winston repeated his 40 TD 10 INT season the year before and stayed at that level I'd be less inclined to trade the pick (and of course, teams would be offering MORE to move up). But considering he didn't have a great year causes me a lot more concern about the risk his immaturity gives him as a potential bust player.

 

Which QB do you think looks like Luck?

 

Problem is, we WERE good without a QB which equaled 7-9...so we fired Munch. Now we are a 2 win team with maybe a QB but a roster full of players who played a lot worse last year and an offense run by an Offensive 'guru' that was as bad as can be. Even with CW we weren't getting it done and he knows the system.

I think it is rather obvious we have more than a player problem, we have a coaching problem. Even keeping Whisenhunt I don't know how we didn't fire some guys on the staff.

What this comes back to is...don't be so desparate to get a good guy and give up 1 or more great ones just because our offense can't do anything without a QB. We still MIGHT have one...but our OL is playing so poorly we don't know!

So the best option IMO, is to fix the biggest holes we have with the best players available in the draft. See if Mett can play. If he can, great. if he's not starter material, we can go get a QB next season and perhaps a new HC if Whisenhunt doesn't show us some special stuff next season.

Of course the real question is, if Whiz takes Winston, he is attaching this coaching job to Winston's success so does Whiz believe in Winston enough? Does Webster? They'd better both be on board with Winston if they take him because if HE flames out, they are gone.

 

Neither. But given the ceiling possibility- winston is closer. His mechanics arnt pretty. He makes mistakes when pressured via the A gap. Will try to do too much at times causing bad decisions.

But the kids ability to retain info, call the shots and be an overall field general ALONG with his accuracy, anticipation and to a lesser extent, mobility/toughness makes for a strong candidate at the next level.

 

Agreed, but his penchant for bad decisions leading to bad turnovers is a serious concern (as are his immaturity). I would say realistically he threw about 6-10 more passes that SHOULD have been picked and would have in the NFL. mark Sanchez is not a good NFL starter because he throws too many picks with bonehead decisions.

The question is, can you harness the Winston who can be lights out and in the zone and get that from him all game? It didn't happen last year...and without Luck's ceiling, he's a big time risk.

And that's the other thing. Just because he can move and run doesn't mean we don't need to fix the OL. He plays his worst under pressure...and you're right...especially A gap.

 

The problem is that we are a crappy team because we drafted two qbs with high picks that have been busts. Why go down that road again? These QBs will bust. If we take one I hope he comes in and does well, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

Good teams come and go every few years, the average career is 4 years, if we miss again on our next QB, look for the next four years to be hell. But you have to take that chance and draft one because of the importance of a QB. If you have a "good" to great QB youre set for 10+ years. Teams change way too fast not to make a QB your top priority. Its like building a car with no engine, everything depends on the QB.

Zach Mettenberger as of today is not an NFL starter, he simply doesn't uplift the team, he's got a rocket of an arm but until he learns the nuances of playing inside the pocket, he's shark bait. Its slightly unfair to say that because of not seeing him behind an NFL offensive line very much, but I saw what I saw and was only slightly impressed at times, that wont cut it in this league, youve gotta be better than slightly impressive. Jameis Winston however is a duel threat QB that hides our OLines inefficiencies as is Marcus Mariota, drafting one of those guys has to be the plan. Normally Id tell you we should draft a cerebral QB meaning a smart pocket passer, but both Winston and Mariota can operate as traditional QB's, on top of that they have wheels similar to Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson.

 

No clue where Webster and Whiz stand on Winston. Two uptight guys in their 50's probably dont view Winston as their QB, who knows tho. All 3 are "country" so maybe they do mesh well. All I know is the kid finds ways to win, he's got star power, and messurables scouts drool over, lets make that guy our guy and try winning football games. Mett is "ehh", we likely got over excited by him because he wasn't Jake Locker or Charlie Whitehurst. Winston and even Mariota tho are game changers. So is Leonard Williams, but if the offense cant keep up taking the best defensive player is useless.

 

This is the problem. If we bust on a QB, we are gonna stink for another 4 years and there is a high enough risk with both Mariota and Winston to choose option B or C (trade out or LW). The FACT is we don't know if Mett is a starter in this league or not. The fact that all 3 of our QB's..even CW who knows the offense...got killed behind the worst playing OL in the league. If Mett was great or terrible, 5 games is not enough. We saw flashes so maybe it's there but maybe flashes is all he has. But maybe he develops into a Tony Romo. Point is, if we rebuild the OL, we can find out next year. If he fails, what did we lose...1 season. With Winston or Mariota and they fail, we lose 4 seasons!

And if you think we should take Winston or Mariota because they can get away from pressure, you're kidding yourself. Mariota won't be ready to start in year one in Whiz's offense because he'll want Mariota to do all the work and fit into his offense and how well is he gonna read from a collapsing pocket like we had last season? Winston was the BEST protected QB in college behind the BEST OL in college football and his biggest issue happens with...PRESSURE! Putting either behind this line without fixing it will be a disaster. So fix the OL...but then we can see if Mett can play. 1 yr tryout to see if Mett is a starter while still getting either a boatload of pics or LW seems like a better plan.

And frankly, if Mett isn't good next year, we suffer 1 more season and try this again...maybe with a better GM/Coach and at the same time have built the team up so a rookie QB can have success in yr one without being killed!

How do you figure Mariota can operate in a Pro system? Or are you saying down the road he could be a taller Russell Wilson? I could wait and develop him but Flacco and Ryan kind of messed up that whole draft 'em and sit 'em. The 2 things I really like about Winston and Mariota is that they SO want to win. But Mariota has a lot to learn...which I don't mind as much because he's a film rat like Peyton but I see no patience with fans or ownership and don't think Whiz or Webster would be around long enough either. And Winston is closer but bad decision making and turnovers are big problems...not to mention maturity.