Deflategate

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Thaddeus43, Jan 19, 2015.

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  1. CheeseheadTitan

    CheeseheadTitan Pro Bowler Tip Jar Donor

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    Totally agree with the assertion about "rubbing the ball"...the only way that would have an impact is if someone rubbed a hole in the ball. Notice that the science guy does not mention temperature when criticizing Belicheat, however.

    And yes, you are right, rules or no rules, there is little doubt in my mind that Belicheat gamed the situation to their advantage. If they were to lose a first round pick I would be elated as a Titans fan but concerned as someone worried about the arbitrary nature of "Goodell Justice".
     
  2. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Space Invaders Champion

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    If it was a clear rule violation and they are found guilty of causing the violation, then they should be hammered because of Spygate, since they were already found guilty of that cheating violation.
     
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  3. CheeseheadTitan

    CheeseheadTitan Pro Bowler Tip Jar Donor

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    Agree...if it is shown (real evidence, not the wishy washy stuff we have seen thus far) that they did deflate the footballs, the book should be thrown at them because of their previous history.

    The problem is that I do not see the proof coming, and the Kraft press conference is an indication to me that no such proof exists. Rich guys only make sure bets, which IMO is both why he waited until today to speak out (probably received a preliminary report from the NFL) and was so defiant. However, I also noted that he is still hedging a bit, prefacing his demand for apology with a big "IF"....again, rich guys only make sure bets IMO.
     
  4. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Space Invaders Champion

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    I think it's going to be impossible to prove. There won't be concrete evidence of tampering. Unless a whistleblower comes forward.

    The real conclusion that needs to happen is a system where the same scenario cannot be repeated. Probably something along the lines where official game balls are provided by NFL instead of teams and being tested on the field during pre-game warmups/player announcements.
     
  5. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    I understand what you're saying but, if the Pats balls deflated 2 lbs from 12.5 and the Colts Balls deflated 2 lbs but stayed within the limits, wouldn't the NFL have come out and said so and simply explained both teams balls dropped 2 lbs due to weather but since the Pats balls started at the minimum threshold, they went far below regulation. Mystery solved, Pats exonerated, gear up for SB.

    If the above were true, why wouldn't the league have put this to bed so there would be no distraction and no possible tarnishing of the SB and the Pats if they were to win? Doesn't make any sense.

    Although I agree, we need more info which we will get after the SB...which also tells you they think something's there and they don't want to deal with it til after the biggest sporting event of the year. It is why they won't interview Brady til after. Could you imagine the *&^*& storm if the finger got pointed at Belicheck or Brady right before the SB? It would be a disaster and a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.
     
  6. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    I think there is another factor. Goodell and Kraft are best buddies and they don't want it to look like favoritism if the Pats get off clean or with a slap on the wrist. The average person doesn't know this but after Kraft's comments, would think the opposite.
     
  7. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Could you give me an example of how you could game the rules with crowd noise? Is there a way to 'accidentally' pump crowd noise through the speakers without anyone knowing about it?

    Purposeful circumvention of the rules is in effect cheating. Not technically of course because they found a way around the rules. But it is up to the league to alter rules and be specific enough to prevent manipulation or leave loopholes...what have you.

    Take the Pats use of 4 OL and telling the ref at the last second which TE or RB is ineligible. They did everything they need to do by the letter of the rules. They informed the ref, the RB was on the LOS, they hiked the ball. However, there are several rules to prevent the Offense from confusing the defense and most of the tricks have worked and then rules adopted for it. notice you can not have 12 or more in the huddle. A player coming off the sidelines has to at least come past the numbers. These rules are there to allow the defense to line up. But the Pats took it to a level that makes it kind of slimey when the RB leaves the huddle first...aligns as a slot, a defender assumes hes an eligible receiver. The rest of the Team breaks the huddle with 5 apparent OL. As the team gets set, the RB tells the ref he's in eligible and 2 seconds later the ball is snapped.

    Did they break any rules? Not technically, but the NFL will have to make a new rule to prevent this deception. The league doesn't really want playoff games won or even altered because someone got a few big plays because they found a way around a rule.

    At the heart of the NFL is the idea of Any Given Sunday and at the center of that is a level playing field. When you bend the rules or circumvent them, it tarnishes the integrity and the quality of the product IMHO.

    So if McGuire had stayed with steroid pre-cursor's (which weren't illegal for a while...took the league a time to catch up to the science), would he be in the Hall since he wouldn't have technically broken any rules? I don't think so. Would you have put him in the Hall of Fame if he hadn't technically cheated? What about Mike Piazza not being in the Hall?
     
  8. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Let's ask you all a question. If a cyclist who has been convicted of doping is found to have an illegally high level of test in his system during a race even though he was tested right before the race and there doesn't appear to be anyway he could have done it (cameras on him) and he wins the race. Does he keep his title? His test came back positive (balls were deflated below league standards) but we don't know how the stuff got into his system and he killed all the other riders so maybe not a big deal. Do you let him keep his title?
     
  9. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor

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  10. CheeseheadTitan

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    Several questions here....I will address the crowd noise one first. Before doing that, I will again preface that I am not in favor of having rules that limit crowd noise or restrict anything...merely using this as an example.

    These two situations are similar. In the case of game ball inflation the rule does not contemplate the potential for environmental factors to affect the pressure level in a football when it is silent to environmental conditions surrounding its inflation and measurement. In the case of crowd noise the rule does not contemplate the potential for a team to control or increase crowd noise when it is silent to the idea of human beings being a source of controllable noise. In both cases the overlooked scenario is possible.

    Temperature effects on a football have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread, so I will not rehash that. For crowd noise, however, there are several examples of coaches and teams purposely and directly increasing crowd noise. When a coach calls for the fans to go under condition "Code Blue" for the coming game I would suggest that he is asking for more than just seeing more blue shirts in the stands. When players and coaches are facing the crowd, swinging towels, and motioning their hands and arms upwards while the other team is running plays on offense I think that they are doing more than making acquaintances with people in the stands. They are requesting more noise....in essence, "turning up the volume" on people.

    This potential source of noise is overlooked by the rules, but I would submit that noise created by human beings in the stands is no less disruptive than noise created by a stereo over loudspeakers (in many cases it is more disruptive due to proximity to the game, especially around the goal lines), much like the lower pressure in the football due to environmental conditions is no less impactful to the condition of the ball than if the ball were purposefully deflated.

    Since this answer is so long, I will not address the other issues unless you want me to....however, I will add that the substitution and machinations on offense intended to catch defenses off guard is certainly not unique to the Patriots here. Many (if not all) teams do similar things.
     
    #320 CheeseheadTitan, Jan 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
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