“More probable than not” Patriots manipulated balls.

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by VondyP, May 6, 2015.

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  1. CheeseheadTitan

    CheeseheadTitan Pro Bowler Tip Jar Donor

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    Yes, although some gain more advantage than others I would guess, otherwise everyone would wear them.

    Using your logic, should the league start allowing stickem again as well? How is that different?
     
  2. JCBRAVE

    JCBRAVE goTitans 2019 Survivor Champion

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    Todays receiver gloves are the equivalent to stickem, you can literally hold a helmet from the top with your thumb and index finger...
     
  3. Tungtide

    Tungtide Just Another Freak

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    You make a good case in regards to Brady. Perhaps getting knocked down a peg or 2 could do him some good. My bigger gripe has to do with the commissioner's lack of leadership. Years ago when the league was going to control the game balls, they caved to the wishes of QBs like Brady and Manning in the name of a fielding a better product instead of instituting strict controls. Then when someone messes up they decide to have a selective, yet arbitrary spine. It is bad leadership. They have the most profitable professional sports product in the world and manage it by the seat of their pants. I believe the suspension was excessive because they ruled on what was probable, not what was conclusive, and without conclusive proof it opens them up to a protracted dispute with Brady, the Patriots and the Player's Association. It's just dumb, and a distraction. As for Brady and the Pats they have to live with the asterisk.
     
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  4. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    Bad leadership in that it is arbitrary decision making. And in regards to administering discipline, arbitrary is a recipe for an unhealthy environment. It falls back on the owners as Goodell reports only to them.

    This is one reason why I find this situation with Kraft's Patriots satisfying. They have been able to enjoy the fruits of this arbitrary administration, now it has come to roost and there was NO alternative but for the league to handle Deflategate the way they did. Doing anything different would expose to all the preferential/arbitrary manner in which the league has operated toward big market big money teams and popular players.
     
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  5. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    I heard Brad Hopkins make an interesting analogy on Sirius XM this AM regarding the "sting operation" comments Pats supporters are making. Hopkins compared the situation to when police set "speed traps". He points out that those areas selected to be policed are selected based off of citizen complaints and areas where excessive speeding has occurred. The comparison being that people both within the league and fans share a perception that the Patriots will bend or even violate the rules to gain a competitive edge based on their past history. And the Patriots walked right into doing so by deflating balls or at least being obstructive in the league's attempt to investigate the integrity of the game.
     
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  6. Vigsted

    Vigsted Starter

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    Why hasn't any of the Umpires noticed? They handle the ball every snap.
     
  7. Vigsted

    Vigsted Starter

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    The Patrios and McNally agreed to do a follow up phone interview, why would that not be good enough? You can ask questions just as easily by phone. Why didn't they ask for a video conference instead?

    If what you say about Tom Brady being able to cherrypick the data he could submit to Wells is true (which I doubt it is, because it would be pointless), then it only strengthens Brady's claim that he refused on the principle that private messages and conversations are off limits to an employer. A principle I completely agree with. Only the authorities with a search warrant have the right to go through you personal items.

    And the "If you have nothing to hide, why don't you allow X" should be part of Godwin's law. Would you let me come by and search your house tomorrow? If you have nothing to hide, there shouldn't be a problem... of course you don't want me going through you personal stuff where I have absolutely no business.
     
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  8. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    Yeah except Brady was told that he only had to produce texts to the Pats equipment manager and the other guy.
     
  9. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Im not going to discuss Goodell's bad leadership because we could be here for days and it is not particularly relevant to Brady's punishment in this instance. The league does not need 'conclusive' proof for you to be guilty. For example, a diluted test for drugs nets you the same punishment as a definitive one. By league by-laws they only need probable and even that in only its minimalist sense to find you have violated the rules and for punishment to be given. Hence the wording - more probable than not.

    I think the team got what it deserved for being repeat offenders to league integrity and for obstructing a league investigation. Brady got a slap on the wrist and he's the main one responsible for all of this. 4 games is nothing! Consider the main culprit in Bounty Gate was suspended for a year AND the Head Coach who didn't know anything about it got suspended for a year and they cooperated with the league. How does Belicheck get nothing and Brady only got a quarter of that punishment? He not only did it, but he also obstructed the investigation. He should have been suspended for the year and given a $1mil fine for not cooperating with the league and for damaging the integrity of the league. You want to stop people from doing this, you can't slap them on the wrist!
     
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  10. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    First off, Wells is the one who said in an interview that he understood that Brady may not want to hand over his cell because their could be personal stuff on it he doesn't want to get out and has nothing to do with the investigation. So he told Brady he'd rely on Brady's word that Brady only turn over texts related to his questions regarding this investigation. Corroborating evidence is not pointless AND it would contribute to whether Brady was hiding something or not. He he hands over certain texts and then they find texts from Brady sent to someone else, then they know Brady is covering stuff up and have direct evidence of such.

    If you play in the NFL, you are bound by league rules. One of those rules is that if the league initiates an investigation into you, you must cooperate fully. This is not in a legal sense and Brady is within his LEGAL rights to refuse. But his employer is also able to drop the hammer on him if he doesn't fully cooperate by league rules...which is what is happening.

    And your analogy to someone wanting to search my home doesn't make sense. Brady was given the opportunity to give non-personal info so no one would be going thru his personal stuff. And it's not like they can't just get a list of the texts he made to certain people or have a word processing program search all his texts for keywords like deflate, etc.

    Point is, he could have fully cooperated without any personal info being accessed....so why didn't he? There is only one logical conclusion...
     
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