Attorney for Pacman Upset at Treatment

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by goTitans.com, Jun 22, 2007.

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  1. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Riverman..

    It is Pac and his entourage's version versus the bouncers. Both parties credibility will be attacked by the opposing legal teams in an effort to persuade the judge and/or jury the events actually occurred according to their version. Both sides are equally vulnerable to a solid credibility attack.
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    I have been saying that all along. How have i disagreed with that?

    Your conclusions suggest that you think the bouncer is guilty he got shot. You just said that it will come down to credibility but you predict pacman will walk even from the civil suit which suggests to me you think pac is more credible. This is not a 50/50 deal one guy got shot the other person didn't. One person is a crime VICTIM. It's not debatable whether or not he was shot.

    As for evidence what the hell makes you assume there is little evidence? Did the DA tell you that? Your assumptions always fall in support of the criminal accused and never the crime victim.
     
  2. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Bouncer vs pacman..

    Whom will the jury believe?


    Crime victim vs accused criminal(multiple accusations)..

    Poor working stiff vs rich millionaire athlete..

    Regular guy vs celebrity


    No entourage, has to fight alone vs heavily armed entourage..


    Breaks up fights vs starts fights



    Wheel chair vs 4.3 40..


    Works and lives in vegas vs outsider



    Anyone care to be an elitist?
     
  3. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    Beyond a reasonable doubt. The tie goes to the defendant in our court of law.

    I wish none of this ever happened. I wish Pac was never there. I wish the guy did not get shot. I hope whoever did the shooting gets the stiffest penalty possible.

    I do not believe in allowing my own personal like or dis-like of a person to determine their guilt. I can't assume Pac had anything to do with it or not. I am simply supporting that we use the tried and true legal system to determine whether Pac is guilty or not. It isn't a perfect system but it is the best we have got.

    We both agree about the credibility issue being important. It really doesn't matter who is MORE credible or not as long as the defense can call into to question the bouncer's credibility ENOUGH to instill a REASONABLE DOUBT in a judge/juries mind.

    Believe me- if there were hard evidence that Pac shot the guy or that he "ordered" his shooting, I'd be the first in line to say give him the stiffest penalty possible.

    It isn't about who I like or dis-like. It is about justice and the preservation of due process. There are a lot of holes in the DA's case and how the whole affair has been processed.
     
  4. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    What holes in the DA's case..

    Riverman?

    You are aware that the charge is coercion not murder. Do you even know the details of the DAs case? You don't even know what the Da's case is or who the witnessess are that will be called but you assume right away from the beginning when this was first reported that they have no case against poor little pac. No evidence.

    You can't even bring yourself to admit that pacman has done anything wrong. That he even created the disturbance?

    Here you are sitting here with just a superficial understanding of this case but you already make assumptions about it that are favorable to the accused.

    Did you read what the shooting VICTIM has said? Doesn't matter to you? If you are so open minded about this case you should be at least moved by what this man is accusing pacman of. Damned serious stuff but to you this is all a smear job.
     
  5. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Once again riverman..

    It's not a damn tie!

    Two people were almost killed. Pacman wasn't shot he isn't a crime VICTIM. WTF is so damn hard to understand about that?
     
  6. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Riverman's 50/50..

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    Cudworth finally forced Jones outside, where he says Jones threatened to shoot him and acted as if he was reaching for a weapon in his waistband. The suit says a witness heard Jones tell another member of his group, "Let's smoke this fool."

    Later, the suit alleges that a member of Jones' group fired a black semiautomatic handgun five or six times toward Cudworth, hitting him in the chest and left arm, causing permanent injury. Another bouncer, Thomas Urbanski, was shot in the left hand and the torso, and was left paralyzed from the waist down. A female club patron was wounded in the head.
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    I guess they got what they deserved eh? Anyone who reads this and doesn't think that pacman is in deep caca is a waste of time. Riverman even called the lawsuit filed as frivolous.. How dare a mere shooting victim bring a lawsuit. Blaming mcdonalds for being fat that's ok but getting shot is no reason to bring a vicil action. WTF world are we living in?
     
  7. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    Your too much RT. I can appreciate the passion, but you have no clue regarding what I'm saying.

    Let's just see what shakes out.
     
  8. GoTitans3801

    GoTitans3801 Forward Progress!

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    RT, it's not about who came out of it in what position, it's about legal culpability. In criminal court, if there is ANY reasonable doubt, Pacman wins. It's remarkably strong, and will probably result in Pacman not being found guilty of criminal charges.

    In civil court, the standard of proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt, it's a preponderance of the evidence, which means that if the bouncer comes off as more credible, he stands a much better chance of getting a verdict than with criminal charges. A lot of Riverman's statements don't apply to the civil case.

    However, I think where you're missing the boat is where you keep plugging the victim language. Yes, this guy was shot, that's not in dispute. Yes, he's suffered severe injuries and may never recover fully. Yes, Pacman can play CB in the NFL and makes lots of money. None of these things are in dispute, so you don't need to keep bringing them in. The dispute is whether the bouncer can PROVE that Pacman or one of Pacman's posse shot him. And whether he can PROVE that Pacman bit him. Oh, yes, we're all listening to what the bouncer is saying, but that doesn't make it true, either here or in a jury room. Neither person looks that credible. If the DNA test comes in on Pacman's side, it's going to bring a lot of doubt into the jury's mind about his ENTIRE STORY. That's one reason why riverman is saying he's less likely to remain credible. If he's arguing that Pacman bit him, and that pacman threatened him, and that Pacman's friend shot him, then he looks less credible if there are DNA results saying Pacman didn't bite him. On a side note, it's also going to be used against the bouncer that he said originally that he didn't see who shot him. Any changes in his story will be brought up.

    The main problem with our arguments on here is that we don't have ANY hard facts. We haven't seen the statements given to the police, we don't know what the DNA test actually proves, and we don't have the exact text of the law suit. Several times on here people make assumptions about what side is true, when we're not actually sure what has really been said and what has just been reported by the news.
     
  9. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    :applause:

    That was very well said. Thank you. Your clarity of thought and sharp writing skills are much appreciated.
     
  10. Gunny

    Gunny Shoutbox Fuhrer

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    I'm not picking sides on who will, or will most likely, win this case. Mainly because I don't know all the facts and like most cases there are two sides to the story.

    I am just pointing out, despite what the bouncer said, a coercion charge isn't much considering what he claims to have happened. And a lawyer will definitely go gung ho at the bouncer to ruin his credibility.
     
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