fisher "Not going anywhere"

i had an interesting thought...

Reese's bad drafting in 01, 02 and 03 was the reason we were in position to draft pacman and vince...

without those crappy drafts we would have won more games and never had the chance to draft our franchise players...

 

That was all part of his master plan :ha:

 

Well...

Other teams are able to trade players like that for 2nd rndrs....why can't we? Didn't Javin Walker get traded during the draft? If he left himself a little flexibility in his cap, he COULD have traded them. He didn't think far enough ahead. He should have worked contracts differently, left us some cap room to be able to trade. As it was, he didn't even leave us enough cap room to even PUT a franchise tag on Kearse without restructuring contracts. Not smart. Even more negligent, when Runyan was testing the free agent market, he wasn't in constant contact with him to get a final offer before he signed with the Eagles. And he was a Pro Bowl young RT. And how do you defend him LOCKING OUT McNair? If he wasn't gonna keep him for this season, he should have traded him at the first opportunity and not let this go to the 'lockout stage' which is humiliating to the player and the entire organization. It also nets us the worst possible draft pick.

And no, I'm not complaining we couldn't trade our 7th rnd pick for a 1st. Other teams have done this so it a perfectly viable way of doing things. The difference is, those teams got back good players for their trouble and we got nothing for letting a ton of talent walk out the door. If you like the maximize talent but put us in cap hell for years and force a 3-5 rebuilding project because you think that's worth it to maximize the talent for a few years, I understand your point.

But saying he couldn't have traded players is silly. Other teams have done it and continue to do it.

Gut

 

Was Javon Walker on the type of money Rolle, Mase, McNair were on?

He woulda been on his rookie contract still.

 

He was. His salary the previous year was around $500,000.

And about the lockout -- SK is right, Floyd had nothing to do with that. He and Jeff were away in California scouting Leinart. That was all Bud.

 

The cap was the way it was because he kept the core of the team together to keep the Super Bowl window open. That has consequences. Included among those consequences is that there was no mathematical way to keep Mason or Rolle long enough to trade them.

But the other option was to have gotten rid of them 2 years earlier. Had the Titans done that, fans would have been even more pissed...

The Packers were able to trade Javon Walker because he was still playing on his fairly inexpensive rookie contract. Mason and Rolle were obviously not.

They kept the team together to keep winning. I don't see who the hell should complain about that. Teams only have a window that lasts so long. We had ours for 5 years (would have been 6 if not for the massive list of injuries in 2004). Reese did his job by keeping the team in contention that long.

They were going to renegotiate with Rolle and Mason to lower their cap numbers. But they refused to renegotiate unless the Titans did the same with Eddie George's contract (which would have forced the team to guarantee him millions of dollars and keep him on the roster). The 3 of them shared the same agents. So when they blackmailed the Titans, there was no way to clear the cap room to franchise Kearse.

They couldn't keep Runyan if he wanted to leave. Plus, he wasn't worth the most expensive contract by an OLineman in NFL history. No RT was.

By pointing out that he wasn't the guy that locked out McNair.

That happens to lots of teams. It's called the "salary cap era". There are only so many quality players you can afford to pay market value for.

No team in our position, with expensive veterans and a tight salary cap because of years of keeping the nucleus together, would be able to do any differently.

 

Sk

How can you say Reese 'hit' on him when he had 2 career starts over 2 seasons? I can't say he was a bust but you can't say he was very good. He barely played at all. As I said, he wasn't a big contributor from that class and is out of football.

He didn't help our team, right? Bennett wasn't drafted. But yes, Kevin Carter was a benefit but not nearly as big as we expected and he helped kill our cap. In retrospect, we would have been better using our draft pick and not hurting our cap, so I think it's a wash. At the time I thought it was a good move considering the talent level we got, but I also didn't realize Reese would drive our cap through the ground and force us to rebuild. This is where Schwartz hurt us the most, not maximizing the talent he had.

You must be joking. Hartwig was a terrible C who eventually developed to sub-par. If he was such a great C, why didn't we keep him? Because he was BAD. I don't credit Reese for bad players...even if they start! And he was FORCED to start BECAUSE Reese killied the cap and didn't draft a decent C earlier. And Hall has done nothing except his first year. He's not even on a team right now and he's in his prime. And given that we haven't found a good DE to start since Kearse via the draft, don't ya think if Hall was anything we would have kept him? The fact that he couldn't even produce at KC (with their bad D from 05) should tell you something.

Long has been OK. Considering he was a 4th rnd pick...he's been OK. He hasn't been some big steal that people at the time predicted. And we're not exactly dying without him. Calico is a bust. Even when he was healthy he was very inconsistent catching the ball and didn't exactly come out firing on all cylinders. And to think Reese considered taking him in the first rnd...is NOT a good sign.

Co-starters doesn't mean you're good...just like Hartwig. Neither LaBoy nor Odom look like they can benefit the D by being the starter. And let's not forget he also took a 3rd DE too. None of that trifecta has solidified one DE spot. Amano is a potential starter? When I see it AND he plays well, I'll give the credit. Right now, he's a backup and I don't think that will change especially since there's at least one guy on the OL that needs upgrading and Amano hasn't been able to unseat him.

BJones is playing so well people are begging for a shot at a top WR in the draft this year. As a 3rd rnd pick, he's where I expect him to be but the jury is definitely still out. Stewart is starting because we have no real RT and he's the best option on this roster...that doesn't mean he's a good option. To his credit, he hasn't been terrible, but he too is playing like a 4th rndr (though he's starting fulltime). And if we didn't have VY back there, Stewart would be even more of a liability. Fuller has developed into a solid backup contributor. Of course, that's where he was drafted so no big plus or minus there. Roos is a solid player who is playing LT pretty well...especially since it's his first time there and only second in the league. He was a good pick. Scaife was a good pick too. I like him and he's a solid player for the passing game and run blocking. I'll give you him as a good pick. Hill still has the jury out. He gets toasted in almost every game which is not good. The fact that he's starting over Finnegan is another nail in JS's resume. But I suppose he's not bad for a 7th rnd pick. If you wanna give Reese credit for getting us a below par player in the late rnds, fine.

Yes, Tulloch should be added to the starters list or at least potential starters. He will be the starting MLB next year. Considering LT continues to start and they haven't even given Fuller or Lowry as a shot doesn't not bode well of them becoming a starter next year. And frankly, we've seen Lowry play only a couple of plays so it's impossible to judge if he should start or start because our other option is worse. The 3rd pick for Henry is a wash. He's having an excellent year this year, but he wasn't very good the year before. Plus, he probably won't be on the team next year because of the bonus and you can't give him big money because of the drug thing. This is also a move that if we re-sign him, we take up more cap space than a 3rd rndr. And BTW, how the heck were the Bills able to trade away a talented player for a 3rd rnd pick? I thought you said that kind of thing was near impossible?

How many are GOOD starters? I can close my eyes and throw darts at the draft board and some of them will be forced to start whether they are good enough or not. Does that make me a good GM?

I understand he wanted to win...as we all do. But when you say he sacrificed the future to win...he did it in such a way as to run this team into the ground. He kept as many guys as he could by restructuring deals which killed our cap. While maximizing talent for previous years, he ran the team into the ground doing it. If he didn't, please explain why we cut 5 of the 10 best players on the team and how this HELPED us. When you have to cut half your best starters and are in cap hell for a few years (meaning you're gonna lose a lot because you have a LOT LESS talent), you ran the team into the ground. If he had started trading off players earlier so we could get good replacements of those players, we never would have been in cap hell nor had a depleted roster. We wouldn't have had quite as much talent in any particular year, but we would have had enough to be a perennial playoff team with a shot for the SB if we hadn't hired JS.

No but you can have your brownie and eat it too!

They could have if Reese had kept room in the cap to be able to and had structured contract schedules better with this in mind.

Kearse was let go because Reese didn't plan ahead. Again, he had no cap room to tag Kearse without restructuring contracts and let an agent force the issue. That's not good management. In fact, that's exactly what you should NOT do if you want to maximize the talent on your roster.

Did Bud one day decide he didn't like the McNair anymore? Or did his financial advisor meet with him the day before and told Reese to lock him out? Again, this is poor management. Reese, Adams, and Fisher should have had a comprehensive plan as to what to do with McNair. We all knew they'd take a QB in the draft and certainly one would be available under any circumstances. If they weren't gonna keep McNair, they should have traded him at the first possible moment to maximize the # of teams involved to get us the best draft pick possible. Any way you look at it, it's Reese's job and should have been handled BEFORE getting to the lockout stage. Does someone have a good link that explains how this all went down?

From what I recall reading, Fisher wanted KC to be signed right after the draft to compete with Volek. Reese wouldn't do it (maybe he thought Volek was good enough til VY).

Reese has both a winning track record and a losing one both in terms of the teams having winning and losing seasons, the talent he's drafted and not drafted, the talent he's brought in and let go via free agency, and his managing of the team's cap.

Inconsistency is the heart of mediocrity.

And no, I don't want Charlie Caserly. He's worse!

Gut

 

A good suggestion...

I'll do that when I get a chance...

Gut

 

Reese may have made some mistakes, but suddenly all is well in Titan land. I don't know if he changed scouts or what, but notice our draft picks are on the field and playing this year, and getting valuable experience. We are winning games right now, and have a huge cap room for next year. What's done is done, but the future is certainly bright again. Tulloch, Lowry, Fuller, Finnegan, Hall, White, Mahelona, Stewart, Connover and Cramer have all contributed, some even starting. The addition of Brown and Smith have been fantastic, and hopefully Troupe will eventually play up to his potential. Scaife has been great too. We have beaten 4 playoff teams in the last 5 weeks. I see no reason to start making drastic changes since we are past all the problems of two years ago and should get back to winning on a consistent basis again.

 

Um...I know...

If he had first planned out the cap so we had room to trade one or two guys, we would have been able to repeat that as the previous contracts came off our cap the following years. We would have also got more high draft picks trading players on our time schedule, not releasing players because everyone knows we have to cut them. Yes, we may have had a dip in talent for a year or two, but we still would have had enough talent to be a playoff team and if we drafted well, we'd have been better than that (and younger).

I know, just making the point that top notch players are traded for good draft picks and if we had had the room (which I think we should have to be able to trade at least 1 guy), we could have gotten that back in return.

There are two schools of thought. One, you enter into cap hell to maximize talent to try and win a champsionship in 3-5 years after which you'll have to rebuild the team for 3-5 years. Or, two, you manage the cap wisely so you can trade players making tons of money a year or two before there current salary kills you and can't afford to re-sign them. Trade them for a good draft choice and plug in a new high talent player. The only downside to this is you won't have quite as much talent on your team as example one, but certainly enough to be a playoff team and to contend for a SB. One can make the argument that the most talented team in the NFL doesn't win the SB every year. And for the most part, example 2 doesn't require any DOWN years or rebuilding.

Is Reese's job to build a winning team for 5 years followed by a losing team for 5 years? If that's his job description, he's done very well. If his job is to build a winning team that STAYS a winning team and ALWAYS has a shot to contend for the SB, he's not done that. The problem with Reese's way is simple...if injuries cripple you, there goes one up year. The other way, you can be in contention for 10 years.

As I said, allowing yourself to be blackmailed by an agent is poor management! You can blame the agent for doing HIS job in trying to get his players maximum dollars, but that is Reese's fault for hinging what he does on a player's agent playing ball. That is a bad job by Reese. What the agent did is not good for the Titans and low, but he doesn't work for the Titans.

I believe Runyan didn't want to leave which is why he tried to get in touch with Reese before signing the contract.

OK, so we can blame the lockout on Bud (assuming you guys are right), but that doesn't change dumping McNair for virtually nothing. If Reese wasn't gonna keep McNair, he should have traded him MUCH earlier and tried to get a bidding war going for his services.

It's called bad management. reese is certainly not the only GM to follow this course...the Jags and Ravens have done this and both went through it. The 3 of us can show 1 SB ring amonst us. The Patriots on the other hand have 3 rings and despite continuously losing players, they have a great shot at going to the playoffs again. And the Pats have taken this stay good to great by trading players approach a little far.

Which is why I'm suggesting we don't put ourselves in that corner again. It has cost us big time (like not having another first rnd pick from franchising and then trading Kearse).

Gut