Hooker v Lattimore -- Draft Wars Semi Final

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by The Hammer, Apr 21, 2017.

Who would you rather the Titans draft

Poll closed Apr 24, 2017.
  1. Malik Hooker

    28.6%
  2. Marshon Lattimore

    71.4%
  1. 8isGreat

    8isGreat Special Teams Standout Tip Jar Donor

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    ^This is my only concern with him! And that's what I love about JRob. He wants guys that love the game and are team guys that will buy into what the Titans are selling.

    My only guess for the Titans not even bringing Hooker in for a team visit is that JRob might have those same concerns about him as well...and/or JRob and co. really like Byard and are sold on him at FS.
    #11
  2. xhrr

    xhrr Starter

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    You seriously think White, King, and Conley will all be off the board by 18? Not a f'ing chance.
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  3. Broken Arrow

    Broken Arrow Starter

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    and explain why.... go ahead I'll wait.

    BUF, NO, ARI, PHI, and even INDY need CB's....

    The more likely, White and Conley will be off the board and King may still be there - but crazier things on Draft Day have happened.. All it takes is TWO teams to snag those two CB's - and you have one 100% guaranteed CB team in NO.

    so to breakdown your silly statement --- there is a f'ing chance.


    AND philly already FILLED their WR need - Now it's cornerback - so boom there's your two teams.
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  4. xhrr

    xhrr Starter

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    Y'all ready for this if we're dumb new-york-jets.jpg
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  5. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Hooker may have more upside but his position is less important than CB as our current is schemed atm. Normally in a 3-4 zone blitz like he ran in Pitt it's different. But we have been playing a lot of man single high S. And you can't overlook Hooker having two surgeries after starting one year. That doesn't give him a clear medical edge over Lattimore's hammy's.

    Most likely Corey Davis and Conley are not available at 18. They may not even be available at 12 if we traded down with Cleveland.
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  6. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    How would all 3 cb's make it to 18? You think only 1 team will take a CB in the first 17 picks when there are more than a handful of teams that need them? It's possible, but I doubt it. Since Lattimore has hammy issues, a team may look for the cleanest corners with no health issues and the athleticism/size/speed which could be Conley and King. White is also a rather 'safe' option with less upside so he could be there. then again, if we don't see a lot of qb movement in the top 15 picks, cb's will be one of the positions that goes off earlier. And remember, Lattimore could come off BEFORE us so if the Jets don't go QB, they, eagles, NO and a few other teams could grab a cb. Not all of them, but you could see 3-4 cb's come off before 18 with 2-3 likely...at least depending on qb, rb, wr, and te's taken.

    I wouldn't be surprised if any player with medicals falls out of the top 10. But scouts and gm evaluate the player. the medical staff determines if that grade gets adjust or if a player gets taken off the board. So it's not really gonna be JRob's call on the medical question but what our medical staff thinks of guys like Lattimore and Hooker's medical stuff.
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  7. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    I'm not sure I agree that the drop off from say Adams to Budda Baker or Hooker to Marcus Williams is as big as most people think. Marcus Williams would probably be touted as a first round player if people weren't drooling all over Hooker. Baker has size issues but he's an excellent player - a do it all S like Adams.

    I think I'd almost feel better trading out of 5 and taking who slides to us and getting another talented player (CB, S, WR, TE, ILB, OLB) in round 2.

    I do also wonder if we would trade back out of 5 for a 2nd and then trade back from 18 for a late 2nd and then use that late first to get Malcom Butler from NE who is currently a better player and a star CB in this league without these medicals and have 2 2nds in addition. In effect, trade a late first for Butler and a late 2nd!
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  8. Cajun_Titan_33

    Cajun_Titan_33 Cowabunga Dudes!

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    Voted Lattimore. One of my many scenarios which would make me happy are Lattimore at 5 and Hooker at 18.
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  9. Ontario Titan

    Ontario Titan Pro Bowler

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    An article on Butler and his value outside of NE

    MALCOLM BUTLER'S VALUE: Where's the love for this young CB?
    If you were a team on the cusp of returning to playoff contention, would you rather trade for a Pro Bowl corner entering the prime of his career or use a first-round pick to select one of the premier cover corners in the 2017 NFL Draft?

    That's the question weighing on the minds of several teams (particularly the New Orleans Saints) when evaluating the pros and cons of acquiring Super Bowl XLIX hero Malcolm Butler against the prospect of taking one of the top corners in a draft loaded with talent at the position.

    In most instances, it is a no-brainer to take the proven commodity over the uncertain proposition.

    Butler made the Pro Bowl in 2015 and earned second-team All-Pro honors last season. With 32 passes defensed and six interceptions over the past two years, he is a feisty competitor with outstanding ball skills and a disciplined game.

    With all that in mind, many folks were surprised that no team offered up a first-round pick to secure the services of such an accomplished corner who's still just 27 years old. You see, Butler entered this offseason as a restricted free agent. Consequently, the Patriots placed a first-round tender on the corner. Thus, other NFL teams had the chance to sign Butler to an offer sheet -- and had New England chose not to match, the signing team would have owed the Pats a first-round pick. No offer sheet ever materialized, though, and Butler signed the one-year contract tender on Tuesday.

    Now that he's signed, the Patriots can trade Butler in a straight-up deal. But would such a trade involve a first-round pick? Doesn't look like it.

    "I appreciate what Butler's done in this league, but there are better players available in this draft," the AFC personnel executive from the first section of this notebook told me. "He's a good player, but I'm not bypassing a first-round corner in this draft for him."

    What? Why isn't there more love on the street for an established NFL corner in his prime?

    It's simple. The fourth-year pro is still viewed as the former undrafted free-agent signee out of West Alabama who failed to impress scouts at his pro day. At that time, Butler measured in at under 5-foot-10, 187 pounds and ran a reported 4.62-second 40-yard dash in front of a handful of scouts. Butler also recorded a 33.5-inch vertical jump, a 9-10 broad jump, a 4.27-second short shuttle and a 7.20-second three-cone drill at the workout. In a league where size and speed are coveted at a premium -- particularly at cornerback -- it is hard to ignore his sub-standard measurements. Especially when comparing him to some of the premier cornerback prospects in the 2017 class ...

    » Marshon Lattimore: 6-foot, 193 pounds; 4.36 40-yard dash; 38.5-inch vertical jump; 11-foot broad jump.

    » Gareon Conley: 6-foot, 195 pounds; 4.44 40-yard dash; 37-inch vertical jump; 10-8 broad jump; 4.18 short shuttle; 6.68 three-cone drill.

    » Tre'Davious White: 5-foot-11, 192 pounds; 4.47 40-yard dash; 32-inch vertical jump; 9-11 broad jump; 4.32 short shuttle; 6.90 three-cone drill.

    Separating Round 1 vs. Round 2 cornerbacks in 2017 draft
    [​IMG]
    » Adoree' Jackson: 5-foot-10, 186 pounds; 4.42 40-yard dash; 36-inch vertical jump; 10-2 broad jump.

    » Kevin King: 6-foot-3, 200 pounds; 4.43 40-yard dash; 39.5-inch vertical jump; 3.89 short shuttle; 6.56 three-cone drill.

    » Marlon Humphrey: 6-foot, 197 pounds; 4.41 40-yard dash; 10-5 broad jump; 6.75 three-cone drill.

    » Chidobe Awuzie: 6-foot, 202 pounds; 4.43 40-yard dash; 34.5-inch vertical jump; 11-foot broad jump; 4.14 short shuttle; 6.81 three-cone drill.

    Sure, it takes a lot more than speed and athleticism to play effectively on the island in the NFL, but Butler's pedestrian numbers certainly make it hard for some executives to embrace the idea of relinquishing a top pick to land the fourth-year pro, especially when it also comes with hefty future contract demands that could range in the $10-11 million per-year range. General managers and scouts would rather draft and groom a young player with better physical traits than expend a lot of draft currency and money on a limited athlete on the perimeter.

    "This is a unique year because you can get any kind of corner that you want," the AFC personnel executive said. "This class has big corners with bump-and-run skills, smaller corners with quick feet and off cover skills. Plus, there are some nickel corners with polished games. It would take a lot to get me to part with a top pick when I can get a talented young corner at the top of the draft."

    That's why there's been some hesitation from teams when it comes to making a serious play for Butler this offseason. Despite his solid play and production as a two-year starter, he doesn't strike NFL officials as an elite athlete -- and that makes it hard to surrender a top pick. Sure, we can cite Butler's competitiveness, instincts and technical skills as solid characteristics, but "shutdown" cornerbacks are expected to move around like elite athletes and handle one-on-one matchups with little assistance.

    While Butler has played at a high level over the past two seasons, there are some skeptics who wonder if he is a system player benefitting from the Patriots' scheme. New England routinely double-teams the opponent's top target with a safety floating over the top or a linebacker cutting underneath. These tactics allow a cornerback to hide in some marquee matchups against elite pass catchers. With Butler typically guarding smaller receivers, he isn't a true CB1 in every sense of the word.

    To be fair, Butler has thrived in many games as a defensive "matchup" weapon on the perimeter. He more than held his own in battles with the likes of Antonio Brown and suffocated plenty of receivers throughout the 2016 campaign. With Butler also having experience playing on both sides (left and right cornerback) and in the slot, it's understandable that he wants to be paid like one of the top cover corners in the game. However, I don't know if I would pull the trigger at this point if I worked for a team outside of New England.

    For all the big plays and solid production Butler has delivered, he is ultimately a junkyard dog -- and his grit exceeds his talent/athleticism. This might be why the Patriots elected to bring over Stephon Gilmore to serve as the CB1 on a defense that just won the Super Bowl. Gilmore's superior physical dimensions (6-foot-1, 190 pounds) and athleticism (4.40 40-yard dash, 36-inch vertical jump, 10-1 broad jump, 3.94 short shuttle and 6.61 three-cone drill at the 2012 NFL Scouting Combine) make him a more attractive option on the perimeter. Not to mention, he is a former first-round pick (10th overall in 2012 draft) and current Pro Bowler with a game that's better suited towards being a CB1.

    Given how the Pats have tipped their hand regarding their valuation of Butler, I would hold off on sending a high pick to New England for a blue-collar corner who's not necessarily an elite talent
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  10. 8isGreat

    8isGreat Special Teams Standout Tip Jar Donor

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    What do you think Hooker excels in? Cover 3 and Cover 1 both are run with a single high safety!!! And both OSU corners consistently played press!

    And Hooker only started one year because he was sitting behind Vonn Bell and Tyvis Powell, not because he was injured like Lattimore!

    And you can't compare Hooker's injuries to Lattimore's. Hooker's are not the same chronic recurring injuries. Hooker had a torn labrum and a hernia -- the two players' situations don't even compare!
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
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