I'm officially on the Jake Locker bandwagon.

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by HeadOnASwivel, Apr 27, 2011.

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  1. EdRomeo

    EdRomeo Football Fan

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    Comparing Eli's OL at Ole Miss to Jake's at Washington is like comparing the Jets OL to the Bears.

    You shouldn't even need to rationalize the pick you guys got the best QB in the draft.

    Aside from all the other measurables and intangibles for most people Locker's evaluation ultimately boils down to the perception of Locker's accuracy in context with the team around him.

    And when I speak of accuracy I'm talking about actual accuracy i.e. ball placement or location not completion percentage, its an important distinction imo because comp % is as much a measure of the team passing game as unit as it is a measure of the QB as an individual.

    Locker's shows good ball placement (throwing receivers open, throwing back shoulder etc) when his OL can give him a half decent pocket.
    And we've all seen his exceptional accuracy on the run.

    There is a big difference between QB who is occasionaly inaccurate and uncomfortable throwing under normal circumstances vs. a QB that is occasionaly inaccurate and uncomfortable throwing under actual duress from a failing pocket.

    youtube: Peyton Manning 2010 vs Chargers

    Even the best QBs are negatively effected and can become uncomfortable and inaccurate when their pass protection is getting beat and they're under duress constanly being hit and sacked.

    Locker when compared to many QBs in this draft class didn't have the luxury of the quality pass protection (in some cases great pass protectin) nor did he have the benefit of playing in a catch rock and throw 1 read/half field read pitch and catch spread passing offense where the system in itself is a form of pass protection.

    I don't rely on stats much but I believe they're meaningful in comparison to Gabbert one of the top QB prospect in this class ,and a good QB prospect in his own right.
    Locker's much maligned stats/production are on the same level as Gabbert despite the gulf in talent at OL and the benefit of playing in a wide open passing attack conducive to big pass totals

    Gabbert: QB Rating:127--63.6 comp %---16 TD---9 Ints----23 sacks
    Locker: QB Rating: 124--55.4 comp%----17 TD---9 Ints----19 sacks

    For me personally when I watch Locker I don't see nor do I believe the teams that like Locker will think he has a 'lack of football instincts' or 'accuracy issues' beyond those legitamtely caused by the 0-12 talent around him.

    If people are interested I have a good amount of research and information about Locker that I can post once I'm able to start threads, use links and embed youtube.

    Games (UCLA, Nebraska x2, Stanford, USC, Oregon St, Washington St., Arizona, Cal Syracuse, BYU--2009 Stanford, LSU, Arizona, USC, Cal, Notre Dame, Idaho)

    Here's a great link (that I can't post yet) for the QB enthusiast, it offers 2 camera angles for each play 1 of which is the all 22 camera angle: search this guys page on youtube: ossai09
  2. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    It all comes down to looking at film and not stats. Let's not forget his intangibles.
  3. EdRomeo

    EdRomeo Football Fan

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    Mississippi 2002 Schedule
    2002 Spring Roster
    MISSISSIPPI REBELS

    KEY LOSSES OFFENSE: Charles Stackhouse-FB, Joe Gunn-RB, Omar Rayford-WR, Jamie Armstrong-W, Terrence Metcalf-OT

    Offensive starters the Rebels must replace this spring include All-America left tackle Terrence Metcalf, running backs Joe Gunn and Charles Stackhouse, and wide receiver Jamie Armstrong. Metcalf anchored an offensive line which allowed the fewest quarterback sacks in the SEC (10) last season.....What I see in most positions, outside of offensive line and quarterback, is we have quite a few people competing for playing time who have already played a good bit for us. Claxton, as a returning all-conference performer, is expected to be the leader of the pack in the offensive line, while Belton Johnson is back for his third year as a starter up front. "Marcus Johnson and Doug Buckles are two young players who have shown great flashes and have a lot of starts under their belt," Cutcliffe added.
  4. 24

    24 Starter

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    I've watched him against Nebraska (twice), UCLA, Arizona, Oregon State, and USC. My judgement is that he's not overly accurate. He can't control ball speed, he doesn't show consistent touch. I've written countless notes on all these games, and despite the arguments against his completion %, it's pretty clear he has accuracy issues. Watch 8:06 left in the first against USC. The system didn't allow for crossing routes underneath, but he still rarely ever went to his checkdown. Watch 12:10 left in the second against UCLA. He throws targets high, easy targets. Watch 5:26 left in the second against OSU.

    I've done the film work, this is my opinion. I've judged almost every incompletion for "ball placement". He does anticipate routes, he can slide in the pocket, and he can make plays with his legs. But, as far as accuracy goes, he needs time to improve that. As for your Ole Miss reference, everyone knows sack totals are rarely ever indicative of your OL. Peyton was only sacked 16 times last year, yet they just spent their first two picks on OL. I scouted Eli Manning, his line was bad. Metcalf wasn't even on the team Eli's last two years. And, here's former GM Ernie Accorsi's scouting report from his book for good measure.

    Boom.
  5. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    Love that book
  6. EdRomeo

    EdRomeo Football Fan

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    I'm not saying that Ole Miss OL had a great OL; I'm saying that if you're comparing Ole Miss OL to Washington's OL its not even close.

    Ole Miss had an all american and a returning all conference player.

    Washingotn's OL is a bunch of all nothings and never has beens that were often injured, incompetent and reshuffled. Washington rarely was able to start the same OL week to week.

    If you believe Ole Miss was a bad OL I assure you that it would be a huge upgrade from Washington's.

    *If you watch the Washington vs Stanford 09/10 or the Nebraska games its jumps off the tape how overmatched Washington's OL was.
  7. EdRomeo

    EdRomeo Football Fan

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    As soon as I can post youtube/links I would love to have a discussion with you about specific throws because that's really the only way to discuss accuracy/ball placement without looking at the same thing were just talking in generalities.

    Fair warning I love talking football Xs and Os even if we disagree I would be interested to see what you see.

    o I'm not sure what overly accurate means?

    o Washington does run underneath crossing routes.

    The bolded portion of your post is true for any QB.
    *BTW reading your statement 'can't control ball speed' makes one the final drive of the USC game pop into my head. Locker makes a high velocity stick throw into the heart of USC Cover 2 then follows up with a light touch on well placed swing pass in flat after a low/bad snap.
    I wish I could post a link but I can't its the: 2009 Washington vs USC game its on youtube that an example right there of Locker not only showing touch but showing it in crunch time.

    But agains in general every game for every QB ,even Andrew Luck, you can find a few passes every game when a QB will be late, throw with the wrong speed, will be high, will throw behind, will miss a read, will botch a snap etc.

    Afterall even a great comp % is still at best around 65%-70% meaning a QB will miss some throws.

    You mention a few plays but pointing out one play or a few plays from an entire game is noting more then sharp shooting/cherry picking. It over emphasizing negatives which isn't any more a complete or accurate an assessment if I pointed out a few great throws and used those to make a claim.

    If you're gonna give an accurate assessment its a relationship between the number of good plays/throws vs bad throws and the situations under which they occur.

    Trust me I've put in the film work too.
    Me and a fellow coach/QB charted the Washington vs USC game.
    The entire game, meaning every throw. (I would post the passing chart and assessment by itself but it doesn't make sense without the game right there but if you want I can post it)

    But, we also charted Mizzou vs Illinois, Auburn vs USC, TCU vs San Diego State, Arkansas vs Miss St., Iowa vs Michigan, Florida St. vs UNC, Virgina Tech vs Florida St and a few more games.

    (The only prospect Locker was behind in terms of accuracy was Ryan Mallett)

    I agree in as much as every QB should seek to improve in all areas of their game. But, I don't believe nor do I think the staff believes that Locker has accuracy issues.
  8. Tennessy XO

    Tennessy XO @TennessyXO

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    • High Five High Five x 1
  9. 24

    24 Starter

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    It wasn't cherry picking at all. I was just listing some of my notes. And, the USC game was one of his best. If you're using that game as your benchmark, then I can see why you think he's one of the most accurate QBs. That's what this forum is for, you voice your opinion, I voice mine.

    And, it sounds like I don't like Locker, when that's not the case at all. I love everything about him, except the accuracy. If he can sit for at least one year, if not two, it would really help him. IMO, he needs to fix his release, and that will take some serious work.
  10. EdRomeo

    EdRomeo Football Fan

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    Maybe cherry picking isn't the right word, but picking a few plays imo isn't a fair way to make a point, because you can point out a few plays for any QB.

    Oh, I don't use that(2009 USC) game as benchmark for Locker.
    He wasn't really that good in that game until crunch time.
    It only popped into my head because there is good youtibe clip from that game where he displays the exact traits you mentioned that he didn't have.

    No doubt I love talking football and I hope that my posts express that.
    The internet forum doesn't convey this very well but I hope my posts express curiosity and are conversational and not contentious.

    I like to post the way 2 guys would talk football over beers at a bar.


    My feeling is that if you like everything about Jake then you shouldn't worry about his accuracy.
    I believe that Jake isn't randomly inaccurate and I can show it.(once I'm allowed to post video and links)

    But, like any QB Jake's accuracy is legitimately effected and dependent upon pass protection.
    For me there's a big difference between random inaccuracy vs inaccuracy caused by a lack of pass protection.(collapsing pockett,OTs that can't set/hold the edge, pressure up the middle, being constantly hit or sacked.

    Jake just happens to play on a team that has 0-12 talent and can't pass protect very well.

    I guess just don't see the where the issues with his accuracy come from because I don't see the 'inaccuracy' there on film.

    Jake usually has good ball placement and good loction on his passes.
    Sometimes he even shows an advanced understanding of ball placement.

    Think of it this way if Jake can be very accurate throwing on the move, which is more difficult then throwing from inside the pocket can he really be a net inaccurate passer?
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