Question about DE? Jason Pierre-Paul vs Morgan

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by titan_fan_4ever, Mar 13, 2010.

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  1. xpmar9x

    xpmar9x The Real Slim Shady

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    I live in Illinois, I'm a Fighting Illini fan. Go to about 70% of their games. Will be going to the UoI in a year. Thats about it ha
     
  2. Woy

    Woy PA's finest.

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    Give me Graham over both.

    If not, then Morgan. I don't want JPP.
     
  3. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill Camp Fodder

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    CB - no way Haden or Wilson are better than Thomas. Thomas is considered by some to be the #1 DB in this draft. I can understand the Barry comparisons but not the other two.

    LB - I love McClain or Weatherspoon but how can you not take Kindle there especially with his ability to play DE as well as OLB. He easily has the best pass rush skills of all the available linebackers.

    DT - I wouldn't touch Cody with a 10 foot poll. He is going to eat himself out of the league within two to three years. And besides, he wasn't that good at Alabama to begin with, how do you go your entire college career as a starter at Alabama and not register a single sack? Here is my measuring stick for Cody. Charlie Tanner was a very pedestrian Center for Texas, he got absolutely owned by Gerald McCoy and Ndamukong Suh, however, against Cody he did a damn good job. That is all I need to know about Cody. He ain't worth a 1st round pick, I might consider him in the 5 through 7th rounds but not before that.

    DE - Morgan and JPP are the only DE I would take at the 16th pick, now if the Titans want to trade down and get some extra picks then I would consider some of the other guys mentioned. BTW no way I take a DE under 6'3 in the 1st round, the likelihood of that player being a bust is just too great.
     
  4. Ty247

    Ty247 Camp Fodder

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    Perfect Position

    The titans are sitting pretty at 16.. don't have to pay top dollar for a rookie contract, and they're right in the perfect position to take BPA that'll be dropping to them. They also need an infusion of youth and talent into that defense to give it some fire and attitude again.

    So you've got.. McClain, Kindle, Weatherspoon, Earl Thomas, Morgan, Haden, JPP, Graham.. whatever flavour you like.. you're probably going to have at least 3 of those guys listed above to choose from.

    Earl Thomas isn't a CB and is best playing as a roaming Free safety allowing him to use his ball hawking skills. People have said he covers like a cornerback, however make no mistake he's a free safety.
     
  5. Titantic Titan

    Titantic Titan Camp Fodder

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    Thanks for all the info. I would like to think we go after a physical fast corner with our first pick. I hope we would move Jason Jones to DE and let him and Babbin fight it out. I would spend the rest of our draft with D- lineman.
     
  6. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Ah...

    Gotcha!
     
  7. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill Camp Fodder

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    I watched Thomas play the last two season at Texas as a starter, he redshirted his freshmen year. Thomas can absolutely blanket a receiver and I mean really good receivers. I wish I could show you footage of what he did to Dez Bryant in 2008. Bryant didn't get crap in that game. If you go back and look at what he did to Julio Jones in the BCS championship game you will see why he is considered by some scouts as the best DB in this draft.
     
  8. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Um...

    Notice #1 DB doesn't men he's the best CB. I don't know anyone who lists him as the best CB and Mayock is the only respectable guy who lists Thomas as the top S. Thomas didn't play CB at texas. The closest thing he did was drop down to cover slot WR's occasionally. As a 'nickel' CB, he had a lot more protection than an outside CB does. It allowed him to be super aggressive and utilize his ball skills to the fullest. Same with Arenas...so why isn't Arenas even considered a 2nd rnd pick despite playing very well as a nickel CB with a LOT of experience?

    There is also SOME risk with Thomas. His tackling was a bit exposed in the National Championship game so some teams won't be sold on him at S and given he has virtually no experience playing CB on the outside, it's a risk. He's used to reading and going forward to attack plays. He's not used to turning and running or making plays behind him.

    Haden AND Wilson are proven high quality CB's. I was a bit concerned about Wilson because against 3-4 WR sets he frequently shifted inside. Did they do that to protect him or to utilize his playmaking. Dominating all those WR's at the senior bowl showed me he can compete extremely well in 1v1 coverage and could stay even with a super fast WR like Ford. We still have to wait for Wilson to run his 40, but Haden almost has to be listed ahead of Thomas at CB. Haden tackles better than Thomas currently does (though I like Thomas' ball skills slightly better).

    Huh? Kindle had 6 sacks this last season and a grand total of 16 over the last 2 seasons. Jerry hughes has 26(!!!) over the last 2 seasons. Hughes also didn't have a Lamar Houston to draw some blocking away from him. Kindle is a nice attack player but he doesn't read/diagnose plays well. If Kindle had better pass rush skills, how come he didn't have more sacks...especially considering he got to play both 4-3 end and 3-4 OLB???

    Hughes, like Graham, is relentless to the ball carrier/QB and nimble to change direction well. Kindle is a better straight line player. He also doesn't stack very well and might have problems holding up against the run as a 43 DE. Hughes and Graham make great use of their hands and balance to shed blockers quickly and read plays faster than Kindle.

    Did the pedestrian Tanner pancake Cody? Knock him a yard or more off the line repeatdely? What's your definition of damn good job? Texas avg'd 2.9yds per carry in the National Championship game. Not exactly running it down their throats.

    In nearly every play I've seen with Cody - even when doubled, he's not been moved off the LOS and frequently gets push into the backfield (not much). It's the reason why teams had so much trouble running on Bama. NT's that you can't knock off the line are extremely beneficial to 3-4 defenses...look at Wilfork, Hampton, ect. And the thought would be if Cody slims down to 340lbs, he should have better stamina, give you more plays and perhaps a better pass rush than what he had in college. Even if he doesn't, the 370lb old DT's still made nice contributions to their team over the last 10 yrs.

    Why would you want JPP at #16? As for the height thing...do you know that out of the top 4 sack leaders last season, 3 of the 4 were shorter than 6'3 (Dumervil, Freeney, Woodley).

    Gut
     
  9. luvyablue23

    luvyablue23 Camp Fodder

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    Seriously I know I know we have needs on Defense but some of these picks @ 16 that are being suggested are total reaches. Personally I'm not 100% sold on Haden or Wilson.
    The question we should be asking is which players do we see (regardless of position) that are going to be perennial Pro-Bowlers; All-Pros? Will any of them be there @ 16? You can't go wrong with BPA over the long run and personally I don't think our D is THAT bad; a lot of factors contribure to our demise last season. (new coach, no Haynesworth, injuries, age of veteran starters, inexperience) We're not in that bad of shape if guys just step up a little bit. SO.....
    which players in the draft (excluding O-Line) do you see as perennial All-Pro/Pro-Bowl types?

    my short list
    Berry
    Mays
    Spiller
    McClain
    possibly Graham
     
  10. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill Camp Fodder

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    Gut, to answer your questions about kindle.

    In 2008 Kindle played 100% linebacker on the opposite side of Orakpo, Orakpo was the focus of the opposing offense and that freed up Kindle to blitz and that is how he got his 10 sacks that year.

    In 2009 Kindle was the focus of the offense and was the guy drawing all the double teams, he was a part time starter at DE and part-time starter at LB. Houston and Sam Acho were the two winners as they were freed up to make the sacks.
     
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