vick ordered not to report to camp

Now you have to and get all nasty again. I have read it. You need to read my statements again. You referenced an NFL.com article dated April 10, 2007 that was a summary of "changes". I realize the policy in 2000 also allowed the commissioner the capacity to fine or suspend a player for charges alone- the point of referencing it was to point out that even NFL.com was compelled to include it in an outline of CHANGES because it Goodell's unprecedented application of the policy heralded a CHANGE in the application.

I keep trying to point out the UNPRECEDENTED application and how it applies to inconsistency with others who have qualified under the same guidelines with prior charges and negative "incidents" and have not received similar punishment as listed in the appeal. Either I am not making this clear or you are not responding to it because you keep making the same point about the policy itself.

Here is a link to the appeal document if you're interested.

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/Pacman_Appeal.pdf

Anyway- It is apparent we are at an impasse. I'll say again thank you for your efforts and sharing your opinion. On my end- I'm agreeing to disagree with you. Other obligations won't allow me to debate the same points again and again with the same person.

 

Sorry if I misread your post. The way it was written implied this was a new change. Yes, we can debate this to death, and while Goodell may be "winging it as he goes".....I still don't have a problem with his decision. If any of the players you mentioned (Pac, Tank, Porter, Henry) needed to be made an example of it was Pac. Posted below is the history of Pac.....if you can find another player that in two years has amassed such a record, please jump in.



The following are incidents in which Adam "Pacman" Jones, or people allegedly associated with him, have been involved since the Tennessee Titans drafted him in April 2005. There is only one charge pending against Jones.


July 13, 2005: Two weeks before training camp is scheduled to begin, Jones is arrested by Nashville police at Titans headquarters. He is charged with assault and felony vandalism stemming from a nightclub altercation.


Sept. 5, 2005: Six days before the season opener at Pittsburgh, Jones attends the annual Nashville Sports Council Kickoff Luncheon. Later, Jones has a loud, verbal tantrum when told he must wait in line for his vehicle, according to witnesses. He does not pay for valet service.

Oct. 25, 2005: Five days before the eighth game of the season, it is alleged by the state of West Virginia that Jones has violated the terms of his probation, going back to a suspended sentence after a barroom brawl during his freshman year at college. A judge extends his probation 90 days.


Feb. 6, 2006: Jones is arrested in Fayetteville, Ga., and charged with possession of marijuana. He is handcuffed after throwing a punch at an officer, according to police, and charged with a felony count of obstruction and two misdemeanors of obstructing police. The drug charge is dismissed in January 2007, although his mother Deborah and a friend, Marcus Bowens, are convicted of possession of marijuana. Jones will appear in court later this month to face the obstruction charges.


March 23, 2006: A Fayette County drug task force SWAT team serves a search warrant at the Georgia home Jones bought for his mother. When Jones steps out of his Corvette, a drug investigator notices that the car reeks of marijuana. Jones admits to police he has been smoking and that it will be several weeks before he is able to pass a drug test.

April 18, 2006: According to Nashville police, who cite surveillance camera footage, Jones is one of 12 people gathered at a gas station when a fight breaks out and gunshots are fired.


Aug. 25, 2006: Jones is arrested in Murfreesboro, Tenn., for disorderly conduct and public intoxication. At the Sweetwater Saloon, he is accused of assault by Toya Garth, who says Jones spit in her face and she spit back. A judge sentences Jones six months probation provided he stays out of further trouble.


Oct. 26, 2006: Jones is cited for misdemeanor assault at Club Mystic, a Nashville nightclub, where he allegedly spits in the face of a female college student. He is suspended for one game by the Titans, on Nov. 5 at Jacksonville.

Feb. 19, 2007: Jones is present when an early morning brawl breaks out at Minxx Gentlemen's Club in Las Vegas. Three people are shot. Club co-owner Robert Susnar claims the shooter -- still at large -- acted on Jones' behalf. Jones denies this.

This does not even include his judgment of going to a strip club the night before he meets with Goodell...to see about being banned for guess what...incidents at a strip club. Nor does it include his self imposed curfew, which he has already broken twice. Sometimes you just have to concede that people are not mature, and need intervention.

 

Never said or implied he didn't need some form of intervention/encouragement. My point has always been that Goodell has been arbitrary (and excessive) in how he has applied the personal conduct policy. Oh btw- you can review the document I provided last post if you want to see the numerous other NFL players with similar transgressions that stayed under the radar.

 

I'd like to go back to the Joey Porter incident as an example of Goodells inconsistency.

Porter did not merely punch Jones in the face as was reported.Jones was very insistent that it be made known that a group of 6 men attacked him from behind before Porter got down to his dirty work.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2823703

Now what are the chances of 6 guys randomly attacking an NFL player & facilitating some cheap shot action by another NFL player. Those guys were clearly Porters entourage & the assault was a premeditated attack. Remember this took place in Vegas not long after the Jones/Minxx incident. Another NFL related incident in Vegas ought to have been handled with a heavy hand by Goodell's standards.

How would your employer view it if you & a colleague got into a fight which both made the news & resulted in a misdemeanor battery charge for one of the participants.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2887487

At my place of work both men would be suspended without pay while the incident was investigated. One or both would end up losing their job.

Porter tarnished the shield & got off very lightly IMO.

 

I can see your point.....but this is really a case of Pac just being the Posterchild for Goodells new policy. He needed someone to make an example of, and Pac seemed like the perfect suspect. While fistfighting is not condoned, I think what got Pac the 10 games was the gunplay. If you follow the timelines, Pac was getting further and further into the gangsta world, and you know how it is with kids.....they get away with one thing and it's on to another, with the ante raised. I am not a psychologist, but even I can see a scary pattern with Pac. I still believe it may have been a blessing in disguise. We might even get him back for a few games, if Bud hasn't written him off. Sometimes things work out for the best, even if you can't see it at the time. Pac is not in the clear, but he hasn't killed anyone yet either. There may be hope. If he cleans his life up, we could have a great player for many more years. So 10 games is not so bad, all things considered...especially if it straightens him up.

 

Childress, while Porter may have had a strip club incident just like Pac, there was no gunplay involved, which certainly raises the stakes. Now that incident alone didn't get Pac the 10 games, but if you look at ALL incidents, then add that one to it, surely you can see how it came about.

 

Actually there were only 2 charges and 2 failure to reports cited. This incident wasn't listed and he isn't even a suspect in the gunplay. I know you know that.

Thank you for mentioning in your other post that Pac was the example. He really was and that has been a large source of my frustration. Most Titans fan don't review their information critically and understandably have developed an "almost hatred" attitude toward Pac. Also, Goodell stated very clearly in several national media outlets that he absolutely WOULD NOT make an example out of Pac. (He was responding to concerns that he might intend to such and that sack of shertilizer lied through his teeth)

 

Just different viewpoints Riverman. I think all Titans fans are embarrassed over this. It's just not the kind of behavour we expect from our team. Compound that with losing his talents onfield, and you can certainly see the frustration. I think what most "hate" is the repeated stupidity of putting himself in jeapordy, when he was warned over and over. I honestly had more problems with losing Hayneworth for 6 games. His actions, while deplorable, were in the "heat of the moment" and not planned. For 30 seconds of bad judgment he got 6 games. Pac has had 2 years of mistakes, and gets 10. If you look at it in that perspective, it's not so harsh. For what it's worth, I am reading blogs everywhere that are supporting Goodell for trying to clean up the league. The ends justify the means?

 

great points. pac man is destorying the teams rep.