What if the D isn't as good as last year?

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Morpheus E, Mar 4, 2009.

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  1. A Fightin'Titan

    A Fightin'Titan Starter

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    If you're referring to me being convinced our defense will "collapse" you're wrong. But it will have drop off IMO.


    And yes .... two seasons ago Haynesworth wasn't playing that well. Do you remember where we ranked in overall defense ......32nd. A year before that? 19th. And before that in 05 we were 27th. When AH started playing lights out we as a defense came together and then started to rank in the top ten of the league. Since then other players have been aquired that have contributed alongside of him but he was for sure the most important piece in our defense. The ripple will be felt from the defensive line to the safeties.

    Again I don't think we will drop right off the map but don't expect a top ten defense this year IMO.
     
  2. wplatham

    wplatham U of M Class of 2012

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    Yeah, you are right! And I'm sure adding Vanden Bosch, Hope, Thorton, Harper, Tulloch, Griffin, Finnegan, Brown, Ford, J. Jones, Fuller didn't help at all! :suspect:

    Yeah, that's 8 starters and 3 key role players we've added since 2005. And you think Al was the reason we got so much better? I think it's because every position on the team got better. Al was apart of it, and he started looking better when everybody else did.

    Albert Haynesworth was 1/11th of our defense. Not 3/4, not 1/2, 1/11th. He is one player. It is a team sport where 11 players are on the field at once.
    Was he good? Yes
    Can the rest of the team make up for his absence? Of course.

    We are still going to be top 10 in defense next year. Book it. :yes:
     
  3. A Fightin'Titan

    A Fightin'Titan Starter

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    Did you read my post? I said he was the most important player on defense. I didn't say he was the team.

    We aren't going to collapse IMO. I just think we will slide back about 5 spots overall.

    I am well aware of our other players on defense. Technically speaking he was 1/11th of our defense but in terms of his effect on the opposing offense he played much more of a role.



    Ahhhhh the famous "book it" line. I hope i'm wrong but I really do think his loss will drop us out of the top ten. The rushing yards alone will probably jump 20-40 yards more a game overall.
     
  4. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Um...let's see IF I get this right...

    In order for your assertion to be valid, these players needed to come in after the '06 season AND show improvement over their replacements, right? Here's the problem...

    KVB came here in '05 and had big seasons in '05 and '07, with down ones in '06 and '08. Hope came here in '06 and had a good year but just an OK year in '07 but a good one in '08. Thornton came here in '06 and had a good year with a better one in '07 but a drop off in '08. Harper came in '07 along with Finnegan as our starting CB's replacing Pro Bowler Pacman and a mediocre Reynaldo Hill. Ryan Fowler started in '07 taking over for Sirmon while Tulloch took over in '08 as starting MLB. TBrown came here in '06 and played sparingly. He started all of '07 and '08 taking over for Starks and comittee next to Haynesworth. Ford and JJones came here in '08. Fuller has been on the team since '05 and basically has played in most games in '06, '07 and '08.

    So what does this mean? Since the D improved dramitically from '06 to '07...the question is why. We can eliminate Jones and Ford since they weren't even in the league. While you could argue KVB had a big improvement from 6.5 sacks in '06 to 12 in '07...but he had 12 sacks in '05 and that didn't seem to boost the defense too much. In addition, he had a down year in '08 (4.5 sacks) and the defense got even BETTER. So he's not a big factor. Hope's production went DOWN from '06 to '07. Thornton had a good year in '06 (which didn't make a huge difference) and a little better '07. But again, he had a dropoff in '08 and our defense got better without him. Harper came in '07 and played well, as did Finnegan...but was that a huge upgrade over a Pro Bowl CB in Pacman and a mediocre CB in Hill? That's probably a bit of a wash as Finny became a Pro Bowler in '08 with Harper becoming mediocre. Griffin was certainly an improvement but didn't exactly dominate in '07 vs Lamont Thompson's stats. Griff did have an excellent '08. Tulloch couldn't be the reason because he didn't really start til '08 and Fowler was nothing special in '07. TBrown is arguably the only guy so far who's improvement in stats reflect and improvement in D. He became a starter in '07 and '08 and his good season coincide with our best defensive seasons. Fuller played in every game since '06...in '07 he replace Finnegan as Nickel and has stayed Nickel in '07 and '08. Was he a better NB than Finnegan from '06 to '07? No. The only other player who's stats coincide with our defensive ascendance is AH who's stats got much better in '07 and even better in '08 (as did our defense) whereas TBrown basically has the same stats in '07 and '08.

    So the reality is that there are 3 players who's rise coincides with our D...AH, Griffin, and TBrown. Of them, only AH went to the Pro Bowl and was widely lauded as being a one man wrecking crew.

    But there are 3 things that really made the defensive improvement. First, and most importantly, was AH more than living up to his talent. Not only did he dominate his opponent(s), but he changed blocking schemes (making those around him better) AND changed our philosophy. Getting a good rush with just 4 meant we didn't have to blitz much, could keep 7 in coverage most of the time and play zone behind it (limiting big plays against us while also giving us more INT opportunities). That is a HUGE impact.

    The second reason is simply an increased talent level across the board. Even when guys like Griff or Thornton aren't getting stats, they are making the D better by eliminating weaknesses. We all know LT was a huge hole at FS and simply replacing him (with almost ANYONE) would have improved the team no matter that plyer's stats. So adding a Pro Bowl caliber DE like KVB, a good gap penetrator like TBrown, with solid to good CB's with good S's behind them creates a nice synergistic effect. Add an AH and that effect goes through the roof.

    Lastly, I will give a small margin of credit to Da Schwartz. While he didn't become a good DC, he at least improved from bad to mediocre.

    What does this mean? With no AH, the players around him will have to do a lot more work and it will be harder for them to do so. We still have a nice synrgistic effect from having a defense full of talented players with no real weakness except perhaps size up the middle. Will Cecil be better than Schwartz, worse, or on par? We had better hope he's better...

    So while we add a Jovan Haye who COULD be a better TBrown and have the potential to add a FA DE and or CB, we still have the draft to add more talent to bolster the D. However, it is likely we already know who our starters and main roleplayers will be so we can expect a dropoff. How much will depend on how good of a year we get from the DL...especially KVB, whomever starts opposite him and who replaces AH. A lot will also depend on how well these guys can control the run game without bringing an 8th defender into the box. It will also depend on how Cecil does his first time out!

    Gut
     
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