Torry Holt...the good, the bad, and the interesting!

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Gut, Mar 14, 2009.

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  1. ColtKiller

    ColtKiller Starter

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    Yeah I was waiting for that tired a$s argument. After all, the wide receiver pretty much determines whether or not a team wins it all. How many Super Bowls did Dan Marino win? None? Right, so Trent Dilfer is obviously the superior QB. After all, he has a ring...

    I couldn't find a stat for drops, but I'm sure TO has more. Nevertheless, he still crushes Holt is every GOOD stat you can have, nearly doubling him in TD's. If twice the drops come with twice the TDs, more catches, and more yards, then I'll take it buddy.
    #31
  2. ColtKiller

    ColtKiller Starter

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    TO has averaged 14.8 ypc for his entire career. That means either he catches a lot of screens and runs his a$s off, or catches a lot of deep passes. Either way, you've got to be a fast mother to avg 15 ypc for 13 seasons in the NFL
    #32
  3. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Well...

    If accurate, it probably indicates his bonus is not included in the 6.65 figure since 1.25 +6.65=7.9mil.

    In that case, I think the Titans like the chances in a bidding war to come out on top with a salary lower than 8mil/yr. Then it was a good move to try and trade for him but not complete it based on his not redoing his contract.

    I think in this case, Holt will come here if he wants to play for a contender who will offer him the most. I see other teams that could outbid us, but most of them don't have as good a shot at the SB unless he takes a lot less money to play for Indy. I really thought the Pats made a big mistake signing Galloway knowing Holt was to be released. They have the cap room and play a lot of 3 WR sets. Holt, Welker and Moss....OH MY!!!

    I put the Titans chances at 80%.

    Gut
    #33
  4. reo

    reo Starter

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    You guys need to get over this TO vs Holt thing. TO was never really an option.

    I think Holt could help this team a lot.
    #34
  5. ColtKiller

    ColtKiller Starter

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    I agree 100% about Holt. I think we could have had TO, but there's no point in speculating about that now, he's a Bill. I also think that TO is the better player, and that's what the argument is about. He's out of the question though, so it's really irrelevant. Holt is a very good receiver, and is exactly what we need here: a Solid #1. Let's hope the rumors of him coming to Nashville are true, and get this deal done with ASAP
    #35
  6. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Um...

    I never said he was SO MUCH faster...just faster. And when did I say I don't like him? TO is a beast of a WR. You can't press him because he's too big and too strong. He's one of the main reasons teams fell in love with big/fast WR's. He has Hall of Fame numbers and is still one of the best WR's in the NFL.

    However, we're not comparing Holt and TO career-wise. We're comparing them right NOW. TO, according to Stats Inc. dropped 27 passes in his first two years at Dallas...TWENTY SEVEN!!! TO on the field is much like TO off the field...erratic! He can be overwhelmingly dominant in one game and totally disappear the next. TO is also 3 and 1/2 years older than Holt...which is in Holt's favor. TO has been SURROUNDED by top talent on OL, QB, opposite WR and TE. Holt has been surrounded by a good QB getting pummeled by a bad OL with a good RB encountering the same problem. Until Avery emerged this season, Holt has not had ANY compliment in the passing game. And yet, even on a TERRIBLE offense, Holt has more catches the last 3 seasons and quite a respectable # of yards. TO has more yards and TD's, but his supporting cast gives him a GREAT advantage.

    But perhaps the biggest and most important differences to this conversation have to do with 3 things. Holt carries himself as a professional with the media, his coaches, and team mates. TO is about TO, criticizes team mates and makes it all about him. Holt has shown an ability to step up in big games like his first SB. He's also been taken out of playoff games but he's won more playoff games than TO has. Has TO even won a playoff game outside of SF? The Eagles got to the SB without TO and lost the SB with him. While he played well...he was actually EXCITED after the game that HE played so well...never mind you just lost the biggest game of your life! Lastly, Holt is a leader by example...how he runs his routes, how he practices, how he speaks to his coaches, team mates and the media. That IS the kind of example you want on your football team. He also knows what it's like to WIN the SB. TO is a cancer who divides teams and HURTS their chances in postseason play by wrecking chemistry. He's made comments to the media about Garcia in SF, McNabb in Philly, and let 'slip' a problem amongst Romo, Whitten and TO in Dallas. He's ripped coaches on and off the sideline publicly. Can you imagine if Collins got hurt and Vince didn't throw him 20 passes in a game...what he might say? Heck, Collins isn't gonna throw TO the ball 20 times either...

    As one coach put it...when he got to the NFL, he was 90% terrell and 10% TO. Now he's 90% TO and 10% Terrell. I could take him for one year...but Holt is the better player for us. He will lead by example, runs excellent routes, sets up db's well, has excellent hands and is a chemistry BUILDER! And according to NFL.com, Holt has 9 lost fumbles in his career...2 in the last 3 years. And BTW, there are several articles which exclaim how precise and hard Holt practices...from college to last season. In College for instance, Holt reportedly stayed after practice and caught 500 balls. TO cries on TV because his children are gonna starve if he ONLY makes $6mil. Guess they'll be barely above poverty this year!!!

    Gut
    #36
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  7. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    #37
  8. Chapparal97

    Chapparal97 Grumpy Old Fart

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    I agree with 95% of your post, except this. This has been only the past 2 years for Holt. Holt did have Isaac Bruce (no slouch) and Marshall Faulk for most of his career.
    #38
  9. Soxcat

    Soxcat Starter

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    If I had to compare Holt and TO based on their careers I would say Holt is the better player but trying to compare guys in their 30s comes down to basically one thing. Which one is physically better and I still have some doubts about Holts knees (of course TO is irrelevant anyway).

    The Rams certainly save 8 mil on their CAP by letting Holt go but they basically have ZERO to step into his role as the #1 WR. The Rams losing Holt is even more big than the Titans needing Holt. So you have to ask yourself why would the Rams be willing to out right release Holt unless he is pretty well washed up?

    No other team in the entire NFL tried to trade for Holt. What does that say? There are teams out there with plenty of CAP room that could use a quality WR aren't there? Why aren't they jumping all over the guy.

    Could it be that the Rams and the rest of the NFL think Holt is done? IMO the Titans are probably looking for value as usual. If they can sign Holt for a couple year deal like they did with Kearse (3-4 mil per year) they have little to lose and if by chance Holt can contribute he fills a need for a couple of years. There is no way if I'm the Titans I try to sign Holt to anything more than about 4 mil per year. Holt has a chance with the Titans to get back to the playoffs and maybe a SB. That is his reward before he retires. If he wants more show him the door.
    #39
  10. wplatham

    wplatham U of M Class of 2012

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    I think this all started with everybody trying to figure out whether Holt would make more or less than TO's $6.5 per year. I think Holt would make less, not due to TO being in better, but because TO has so much greater name recognition.
    #40
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